Early First Impressions on Gunbreaker

[TouchandFeel]

snip

I don't believe the point of the SB DRK job quests was to instill guilt, I think the whole point was to get a better look at the realities of situations and the ripple effects and consequences of all actions, even those that are seen as righteous.
In addition it delves into the idea of perspective in regards to concepts of righteousness and necessity, and the inevitable conclusion that the world is not so black and white and is in fact made up of a lot of grey area that you as a great "hero" and force of change need to accept, both the good and the bad, so that you may find your own path and walk it with true resolve as opposed to walking blindly, guided by a false sense of immaculate goodness.

To walk the path of a hero while ignoring the consequences of your actions is weakness that leads to self-doubt or corruption.
To confront those consequences and try to be better while maintaining the readiness to do what has to be done requires true grit.

That is the message of the DRK job quests and is one of the thematic foundations of DRK in this game.

[Bright-Flower]

I don't believe the point of the SB DRK job quests was to instill guilt, I think the whole point was to get a better look at the realities of situations and the ripple effects and consequences of all actions, even those that are seen as righteous.
In addition it delves into the idea of perspective in regards to concepts of righteousness and necessity, and the inevitable conclusion that the world is not so black and white and is in fact made up of a lot of grey area that you as a great "hero" and force of change need to accept, both the good and the bad, so that you may find your own path and walk it with true resolve as opposed to walking blindly, guided by a false sense of immaculate goodness.

To walk the path of a hero while ignoring the consequences of your actions is weakness; to confront those consequences and try to be better while maintaining the readiness to do what has to be done requires true grit.

But what consequences did we ever encounter or have to own up to? I guess that one knight's sister or whoever it was at the start? We had nothing to do with the DRK npc's backstory with his master, we had nothing to do with the backstory of the lady that poisoned us, it wasn't our fault the guy in Gyr Abania was dying, he made the choice to help his friend with the medicine instead of himself. We aren't responsible for the situation of the warriors of darkness, we didn't drive the heavens' ward to evil, it's not our fault Ilberd was a fanatic.

It feels like they had a good idea in mind but didn't have enough to work with to drive the message home.

[Seraphor]

I don't know if they will get a skill named "Renzokuken". It might just be called Chain Slash, because that's what Renzokuken means in Japanese. If you play FFVII you know that almost all limit breaks are named in English, except Renzokuken, which sort of makes it seem like a localization mistake they made back in 1998 but decided to keep because it was the 90's and Japanese sounding attacks sound cool. I say this because Zack has a Limit Break in FF7:CC called "Chain Slash", which in Japanese is Renzokuzan, yet the localization team decided to translate it in English fully. It remains to be seen however if Koji will have it translated (if GNB even gets a similar skill), because Japanese-themed jobs got to keep their Japanese-named skills (Chimatsuri=Bloodfest, Meikyo Shusui=Clear Tranquil), so I doubt GNB's Chain Slash would retain Renzokuken, if not only as a reference to poorly localized FF8en.

It's still called Renzokuken in the Dissidia games, so it's not going ti be localised unless they specificslly want to avoid a connection to Squall.

It's no more a 'poor localisation' that Zantetsuken.

[Kabooa]

Long as I get Fire Cross, I'm fine.

[TouchandFeel]

snip

In regards to the SB DRK quests ...

The central figure to the story arc is Myste, who is our own self-doubt made manifest by the soul crystal, a self-doubt driven by the lingering question of whether our actions were as righteous as we thought them to be.
And so we set off on a journey to solve people's problems and pain in order to prove to ourselves that what we are doing is indeed irrefutably good, however we keep getting confronted with the ghosts of our past, or less poetically, those who directly or indirectly were in the path of the Warrior of Light and ended up suffering because of it.

The knight of the Heavensward died in disgrace and his great wish of restoring a statue of a saint went unrealized, not because he himself was evil but simply because he was associated with the church, which we opposed and overthrew. While those actions helped a great deal of people and opened up the potential for a brighter future for Ishgard as a whole, there were those who suffer, or suffered, because of it such as the knight and his sister. While you could argue that the knight earned his situation, what did the sister do to deserve her suffering and was it not us through our actions that set the events in motion that led to her sorrow?

Then there is the widow that tried to assassinate us in the HW story quest to get revenge on us and the Dravanians for the death of her husband. To us what she did was wrong, but to her it was absolutely justified and we as the "hero" have killed vastly more people out of revenge or a sense of righteousness. Then on top of that we get a two-fer with her now being made to suffer due to abuse because of our decision to show her mercy and the stigma she now carries. While you can again argue that she got what she deserved and that it wasn't our fault she was abused, in the end we are confronted with our lack of perspective and that we didn't consider the inevitable consequences of our actions in regards to how it would play out for others. We thought we were being good and righteous by being merciful, yet never gave her another thought beyond that. We never considered what kind of situation she would be placed into and how she would be treated by others now. We walked away from the situation as if in the wake of our decision everything would be lollipops and rainbows, and we were confronted with the truth that the reality was not at all like that.

The whole bit with the shade of Sid and Frey's master was a bit of a divergence from the formula, but basically was to tell the player that this suffering and sorrow that exists in the world and we as heroes inevitably cause is inescapable and to not get bogged down in the ugliness that results from struggle, but to acknowledge and accept it while persisting, taking it all in, learning and trying to continually do and be better.

With the soldier dying in the cave, again we are presented with a multi-layered situation of action and consequence. The man basically sacrificed himself in order to save a friend. Then that friend goes and does something that was perceived by many, including the player, to be wrong by working for the Griffin. As icing on the cake, that friend that the soldier sacrificed himself to save was then killed, likely by us, therefore making the man's sacrifice and death questionably for naught. So through our actions we essentially undid a noble act of sacrifice which in of itself was mired in a questionable outcome even though it came from good intentions. Pretty messy from an ethics standpoint.

So you ask "what consequences did we ever encounter"?
These are not consequences that we had to suffer, but the consequences suffered by others due to our actions.
"What did we have to own up to?"
That even in our righteousness we caused suffering and sorrow, and that good and evil are intrinsically linked and often go hand in hand.

So again, the SB DRK quests were about seeing beyond our own self-perceived righteousness and to seek to understand the ripple effects, the consequences that inevitably happen and to accept them while constantly striving to do better by confronting this interplay of good and evil, right and wrong and using this knowledge to forge a better and more informed path.

Anyways, I think we have diverged enough from the topic of the thread and should let it get back to being about Gunbreaker.

[Bright-Flower]

Again...what ripple effects? The only 'bad' thing we see in that quest line that was caused by us was one person mourning one of the heavens ward knights. If the point was to explore how what we do has these ripple effects, they should have actually taken the time to examine these ripples and how they affect people. There really wasn't any of that past the first part. It's a good idea in theory but not one I think they pulled off well.

[Kabooa]

Again...what ripple effects? The only 'bad' thing we see in that quest line that was caused by us was one person mourning one of the heavens ward knights. If the point was to explore how what we do has these ripple effects, they should have actually taken the time to examine these ripples and how they affect people. There really wasn't any of that past the first part. It's a good idea in theory but not one I think they pulled off well.

I'll take it over playing a dating sim.

[aqskerorokero]

The point of Drk is that you can't abuse your power or otherwise face the consequences

[HyperiusUltima]

I think we can leave the whole Gloom about the DRK storyline for another thread guys. Let’s get back to Gunbreaker please.

[Burningskull]

In regards to the SB DRK quests ...

The central figure to the story arc is Myste, who is our own self-doubt made manifest by the soul crystal, a self-doubt driven by the lingering question of whether our actions were as righteous as we thought them to be.
And so we set off on a journey to solve people's problems and pain in order to prove to ourselves that what we are doing is indeed irrefutably good, however we keep getting confronted with the ghosts of our past, or less poetically, those who directly or indirectly were in the path of the Warrior of Light and ended up suffering because of it.

The knight of the Heavensward died in disgrace and his great wish of restoring a statue of a saint went unrealized, not because he himself was evil but simply because he was associated with the church, which we opposed and overthrew. While those actions helped a great deal of people and opened up the potential for a brighter future for Ishgard as a whole, there were those who suffer, or suffered, because of it such as the knight and his sister. While you could argue that the knight earned his situation, what did the sister do to deserve her suffering and was it not us through our actions that set the events in motion that led to her sorrow?

Then there is the widow that tried to assassinate us in the HW story quest to get revenge on us and the Dravanians for the death of her husband. To us what she did was wrong, but to her it was absolutely justified and we as the "hero" have killed vastly more people out of revenge or a sense of righteousness. Then on top of that we get a two-fer with her now being made to suffer due to abuse because of our decision to show her mercy and the stigma she now carries. While you can again argue that she got what she deserved and that it wasn't our fault she was abused, in the end we are confronted with our lack of perspective and that we didn't consider the inevitable consequences of our actions in regards to how it would play out for others. We thought we were being good and righteous by being merciful, yet never gave her another thought beyond that. We never considered what kind of situation she would be placed into and how she would be treated by others now. We walked away from the situation as if in the wake of our decision everything would be lollipops and rainbows, and we were confronted with the truth that the reality was not at all like that.

The whole bit with the shade of Sid and Frey's master was a bit of a divergence from the formula, but basically was to tell the player that this suffering and sorrow that exists in the world and we as heroes inevitably cause is inescapable and to not get bogged down in the ugliness that results from struggle, but to acknowledge and accept it while persisting, taking it all in, learning and trying to continually do and be better.

With the soldier dying in the cave, again we are presented with a multi-layered situation of action and consequence. The man basically sacrificed himself in order to save a friend. Then that friend goes and does something that was perceived by many, including the player, to be wrong by working for the Griffin. As icing on the cake, that friend that the soldier sacrificed himself to save was then killed, likely by us, therefore making the man's sacrifice and death questionably for naught. So through our actions we essentially undid a noble act of sacrifice which in of itself was mired in a questionable outcome even though it came from good intentions. Pretty messy from an ethics standpoint.

If Myste was supposed to be my inner doubt then why the heck did it look like an elf when i was a hyur at the time... Maybe that's why the DRK story line in SB didn't make a bit of sense to me.