Gunbreaker starting level

[Nedkel]

Um...You don't need to finish a single quest before getting Shadowbringers...Just so you know.

Having classes start from level 1 allows players that are new to the game start with what they want, instead of having to spend dozens of hours leveling something they're going to scrap the moment they reach some arbitrary level.


There already is a mechanism to solve the problem of leveling these classes. Bonus experience based on the discrepancy between the current and maximum job on the account. What stops them from letting the new classes get like ten times more experience gaining several levels per dungeon run up till 60 or even 70 if you already have a lvl70 job?! That way new players can get started with the class they are interested in, learn it over their non-boosted (or not as boosted) leveling...while the people that want to join the "current" content with their "new mains" could still do it within a day.

The reason why it's not like that is because that would require a lot of job quests and new gears if the class will be using unique set. Simple as that.

I was speaking about someone who is new to the game, finishing MSQ is necessity if he want to play end game.

[kikix12]

I was speaking about someone who is new to the game, finishing MSQ is necessity if he want to play end game.

Of course that finishing the main story is necessary to play endgame...but a job is not endgame content.

[Nedkel]

Of course that finishing the main story is necessary to play endgame...but a job is not endgame content.

Depending on where the quest giver will be placed, it could be in the new area where you have to get access to, after finishing a part of MSQ.
Also you will have to be at least lvl 60.
So technically job will be the near end game content.

[kikix12]

Depending on where the quest giver will be placed, it could be in the new area where you have to get access to, after finishing a part of MSQ.

First, pretty sure it was said it will be in Gridania.

Second, that's what they choose. What stops them from dropping the quest giver in any of the starting cities?! Lack of will. Nothing in an expansion job says that it needs to be in end-game maps or have end-game requirements. That's the point.

Also you will have to be at least lvl 60.

...You're seriously telling me this? Do you even know what "discussion" is?! Just about everyone here KNOWS they have plans to release it at lvl60 with a lvl60 as a requirement. That's why there is a discussion, because not everyone agrees with it. Me being one among them because it's a slap in the new players faces.

So technically job will be the near end game content.

No. End-game content is end-game content. You can do Sastasha Gunbreaker. Jobs are not end-game content. They are the tools with which you play the end-game content (and early-game and mid-game content).

[Nedkel]

First, pretty sure it was said it will be in Gridania.

Second, that's what they choose. What stops them from dropping the quest giver in any of the starting cities?! Lack of will. Nothing in an expansion job says that it needs to be in end-game maps or have end-game requirements. That's the point.

They did this for SB jobs, but HW jobs were in the HW location, so its just all up to them. Yoshida said the new job COULD be in gridania and it may change, do you know why?
Because money is what SE wants, so i will not be surprised at all if they will put the quest giver in new location so everyone has to grind MSQ all the way to shadowbringers and have all 4 expansions.

...You're seriously telling me this? Do you even know what "discussion" is?! Just about everyone here KNOWS they have plans to release it at lvl60 with a lvl60 as a requirement. That's why there is a discussion, because not everyone agrees with it. Me being one among them because it's a slap in the new players faces.

No. End-game content is end-game content. You can do Sastasha Gunbreaker. Jobs are not end-game content. They are the tools with which you play the end-game content (and early-game and mid-game content).

You didnt understand my point, even with the SB there are requirements to meet for springs to access the new jobs. So you have to go through all the 2.0 in order to unlock the samurai or ninja.
New job will definitely not be played by them, so what is the point to make them running duties, which barely anyone does anymore?
Sure they could make them available from lvl 1 as you said, but what for? New content is being sold to the players already playing, so this job is made for them primary, not for newcomers.

[MariaArvana]

They did this for SB jobs, but HW jobs were in the HW location, so its just all up to them. Yoshida said the new job COULD be in gridania and it may change, do you know why?
Because money is what SE wants, so i will not be surprised at all if they will put the quest giver in new location so everyone has to grind MSQ all the way to shadowbringers and have all 4 expansions.

And it caused major complaints as a result, and turned off many new players from even reaching that point in the story to actually try the jobs that were promoted and tag-lined in HW marketing, so to rectify this they moved RDM & SAM to Ul'dah because they learned their mistake. I seriously doubt they'd undo their correction to a mistake. They can't make money if the players who'd be interested in playing GnB leave the game due to impractical placement of the job's unlock area.

Square has learned that having easy access to the biggest market materials of an expansion does a lot better for player retention than sticking it behind (arguably pointless) out of the way unlock conditions. If they stick it in gridania with lvl 60 being the only requirment (maybe lvl 50 story quest completed as well), it'd be easy for a new player to chug a story + lvl 60 pot, unlock GnB and play the job they wanted to for the rest of the MSQ.

[RitsukoSonoda]

And it caused major complaints as a result, and turned off many new players from even reaching that point in the story to actually try the jobs that were promoted and tag-lined in HW marketing, so to rectify this they moved RDM & SAM to Ul'dah because they learned their mistake. I seriously doubt they'd undo their correction to a mistake. They can't make money if the players who'd be interested in playing GnB leave the game due to impractical placement of the job's unlock area.

Square has learned that having easy access to the biggest market materials of an expansion does a lot better for player retention than sticking it behind (arguably pointless) out of the way unlock conditions. If they stick it in gridania with lvl 60 being the only requirment (maybe lvl 50 story quest completed as well), it'd be easy for a new player to chug a story + lvl 60 pot, unlock GnB and play the job they wanted to for the rest of the MSQ.

It wasn't so much that the HW jobs were started in a HW area as much as the entire access to that area was gated behind a trial that required the entire party to be somewhat competent to clear before it was nerfed considerably. There was so much salt over that trial from both the people that just wanted to be carried and the people that weren't clearing because of randoms in their party that just wanted to be carried.

Also a clueless DPS has a far smaller impact in normal duties and a large number of people may not even notice unless they use a parse. While a clueless healer or tank can frequently cause wipes.

Basics of enmity management are actually learned in the low level duties when you don't have numerous crutches to fall back on. The issue is all roles should be learning enmity management at these levels however most DPS blow it off then blame the tank for not holding hate or the healer for not healing them enough to keep them alive because they insist on blowing everything on their skill bar before the tank can even tag the monster or attack an entirely different target, etc...

[Nedkel]

And it caused major complaints as a result, and turned off many new players from even reaching that point in the story to actually try the jobs that were promoted and tag-lined in HW marketing, so to rectify this they moved RDM & SAM to Ul'dah because they learned their mistake. I seriously doubt they'd undo their correction to a mistake. They can't make money if the players who'd be interested in playing GnB leave the game due to impractical placement of the job's unlock area.

Square has learned that having easy access to the biggest market materials of an expansion does a lot better for player retention than sticking it behind (arguably pointless) out of the way unlock conditions. If they stick it in gridania with lvl 60 being the only requirment (maybe lvl 50 story quest completed as well), it'd be easy for a new player to chug a story + lvl 60 pot, unlock GnB and play the job they wanted to for the rest of the MSQ.

But one and the other have nothing to do with each other. There are tons of games where you need an expansion to play a class that you start at level one. Basically...every single paid MMO out there without multi-class system.

Requiring expansion to use its classes is nothing new at all. Heavensward had in its own locations, yes, but they said that they learned from that when people complained about having to do all that quest grinding for a lvl30 job. And they followed through with that claim in Stormblood. There really is no money for them in doing it more difficult.

They may know or they may forgot, no one know.
They still havent touched the worst thing in the game, and that is msq grind with countless number of fetch quests, which puts off most of the newcomers from the game, and they still selling the story skip for those not willing to get it all completed.
Never overestimate the company, they are always greedy, they could just tell that tanks are not for newbies and they should learn the game first before playing it.

Anyway, I won't continue discussing this with you. If you cannot even understand the difference between someone wanting something to be different from a person saying that it's like that...then it's a waste of time.

At least answer my question.
Does SE make this new job for newcomers or for people already playing the game, which are familiar with all basics around this game?
If the answer is, yes they are making for the veterans, then there is the reason why they decided to make it lvl 60 job, instead of lvl 1. There is no need to make it lvl 1, because people dont have to learn and it will annoy them.
Imagine the outcry if they somehow make it starting at lvl 1, there would be more people complaining about this alone than about the job being locked behind stuff for newbies, who barely even understand what classes are for what.

[kikix12]

Because money is what SE wants, so i will not be surprised at all if they will put the quest giver in new location so everyone has to grind MSQ all the way to shadowbringers and have all 4 expansions.

But one and the other have nothing to do with each other. There are tons of games where you need an expansion to play a class that you start at level one. Basically...every single paid MMO out there without multi-class system.

Requiring expansion to use its classes is nothing new at all. Heavensward had in its own locations, yes, but they said that they learned from that when people complained about having to do all that quest grinding for a lvl30 job. And they followed through with that claim in Stormblood. There really is no money for them in doing it more difficult.

You didnt understand my point, even with the SB there are requirements to meet for springs to access the new jobs. So you have to go through all the 2.0 in order to unlock the samurai or ninja.

You don't get my point at all. What I'm saying is that THERE SHOULD NOT BE any such requirements. The only reason why there are is because Square Enix doesn't want to make a full quest line for each job they add from lvl1 to whatever is the new cap. There is no practical or business reason besides that. There are reasons why to make classes at lvl1. It will entice more players to play the game if they won't have to drudge through dozens of hours of quests on something they don't enjoy. But that's hard to measure and may not make up for the money needed for all the "legacy" support for classes. It's just easier to tell new players "Screw you, we don't care about you so deal with it." than actually give them something new.

New job will definitely not be played by them, so what is the point to make them running duties, which barely anyone does anymore?

New jobs will not be played by new players that start from level 1 if they will be available from level 1?!...Huh?! I may be missing something here, I do have a fever after all, but that have no sense to me.

New players also very much do the low level duties. To allow them to do them is the very reason why leveling roulette is there.

Sure they could make them available from lvl 1 as you said, but what for? New content is being sold to the players already playing, so this job is made for them primary, not for newcomers.

Do you seriously think that people buy A Realm Reborn, then once they finished it Heavensward, then after finishing THAT Stormblood then after finishing that Shadowbringers?! That's not even possible. Only the newest expansion is sold with all the former ones packed into it. New players either will have A Realm Reborn only or the complete game at the time of purchase.


Anyway, I won't continue discussing this with you. If you cannot even understand the difference between someone wanting something to be different from a person saying that it's like that...then it's a waste of time.