Gender locked race?

[Taykawai]

I hope its gender lock. Look at how male miqote turned, such a weird design, weird animations, eyes are so far inside the skull you could build a pool and looks like their hands have arthritis. It'll just be another weird male variation of a female race that was gender lock in the past, just to please the cry babies who aren't even gonna switch and just complain because they can.

2k19 and people still fall for that kind of bait

[VertoIncantation]

The "weird male variation" is a very successful race though. Guess many people just have a different taste than you.

Its obvious people have different taste, its normal, like what i said about male miqote is my taste/opinion on it and ppl don't like and you got smartie panty showing that picture which he/she think is funny, but just prove my point.

2k19 and people still fall for that kind of bait

Ain't bait, just irritating to see ppl always wanting more and more out of everything from this game and when their expectation aren't met, they cry and cry and cry.

[Kupocoubo]

Its obvious people have different taste, its normal, like what i said about male miqote is my taste/opinion on it and ppl don't like and you got smartie panty showing that picture which he/she think is funny, but just prove my point.



Ain't bait, just irritating to see ppl always wanting more and more out of everything from this game and when their expectation aren't met, they cry and cry and cry.

maybe don't go on this thread if it irritates you so much.

[Crushnight]

Ain't bait, just irritating to see ppl always wanting more and more out of everything from this game and when their expectation aren't met, they cry and cry and cry.

K if you can give me an adequate reason(decent response that a decent amount of people can get behind so 15 likes) to not include male viera i will refrain from posting anything else within this thread or future male viera threads. FYI lore same as male miqo'te more specifically keepers of the moon and they are playable, personal aesthetic choices don't count and saying it would be too much work also don't count as HW gave 3 jobs and new race while ShB only giving 2 jobs with a race (atm) oh and nin was 2.4 and blu was 4.5 so yea can't use limited job as a reason either gl i look forward to seeing a reply.

[Shippuu]

K if you can give me an adequate reason(decent response that a decent amount of people can get behind so 15 likes) to not include male viera i will refrain from posting anything else within this thread or future male viera threads. FYI lore same as male miqo'te more specifically keepers of the moon and they are playable, personal aesthetic choices don't count and saying it would be too much work also don't count as HW gave 3 jobs and new race while ShB only giving 2 jobs with a race (atm) oh and nin was 2.4 and blu was 4.5 so yea can't use limited job as a reason either gl i look forward to seeing a reply.

Ignoring all your bogus arbitrary limitations, every single person that played as the theoretical new race would prove you wrong. You'd have to have zero players pick such a race to play as in order to even try to prove your point.

You're right in that player's personal aesthetic preferences don't matter, but do you know who's does? The director of the game's, who has consistently shown to be against the idea of male viera.

I mean, you have people in this thread stomping their feet and asking for yoshida to resign from his position if he doesn't give them what they personally want. Especially ironic given that since no official male viera has ever existed, they're basing their expectations of male viera on their own imaginary version of what they might look like which could be drastically different from what they actually end up looking like if they happen.

These are the same people who will be just as much up in arms if viera isn't what they personally want or expect. They say they want male viera, but they each want specific versions of male viera and will be just as upset if it's not their version than if they got something that isn't even viera.

[Crushnight]

Ignoring all your bogus arbitrary limitations, every single person that played as the theoretical new race would prove you wrong. You'd have to have zero players pick such a race to play as in order to even try to prove your point.

You're right in that player's personal aesthetic preferences don't matter, but do you know who's does? The director of the game's, who has consistently shown to be against the idea of male viera.

I mean, you have people in this thread stomping their feet and asking for yoshida to resign from his position if he doesn't give them what they personally want. Especially ironic given that since no official male viera has ever existed, they're basing their expectations of male viera on their own imaginary version of what they might look like which could be drastically different from what they actually end up looking like if they happen.

These are the same people who will be just as much up in arms if viera isn't what they personally want or expect. They say they want male viera, but they each want specific versions of male viera and will be just as upset if it's not their version than if they got something that isn't even viera.

The person i quoted and set that 'challenge' to was in favor of gender locking viera without giving a reason why they think that after being called out by people they went on to say they are sick of criers who just complain whenever they don't get what they want so i then called them out specifically why they think male viera should not be added basically why they were in favor of gender locking them.
The bogus restrictions are the common defense i have seen in every thread about this and guess what they are bad reasons as
1. Male mi'qotes are equally as rare and are fully playable so lore is moot
2. Yes personal preference should have no bearing on reasoning to me this should include the Producer himself i will never ask for his job if he lets his personal taste completely dictate sound reasoning i will however have absolutely no sympathy for him if he gets hounded at every interview about it
3. If they try to defend the devs saying its too much work HW gave more that what ShB is giving currently this could change at Tokyo not a future reader afterall, HW is also the best comparison as was last time gave a new race.

Those that wanted to play female viera will play female viera those that wanted to play male viera will play as them if male viera is forcibly locked out some may go as female viera but a lot of those that wanted to play male won't. I cannot speak for other posters but if male viera is different to what i may want i will still play like i did au ra also i would be content that they were added period the main issue i have is gender locking itself and i personally would find it a very bad direction for ffxiv to take.
Also Yoshi P specifically hated 'cute' male viera not male viera in general

[Shougun]

The person i quoted and set that 'challenge' to was in favor of gender locking viera without giving a reason why they think that after being called out by people they went on to say they are sick of criers who just complain whenever they don't get what they want so i then called them out specifically why they think male viera should not be added basically why they were in favor of gender locking them.
The bogus restrictions are the common defense i have seen in every thread about this and guess what they are bad reasons as
1. Male mi'qotes are equally as rare and are fully playable so lore is moot
2. Yes personal preference should have no bearing on reasoning to me this should include the Producer himself i will never ask for his job if he lets his personal taste completely dictate sound reasoning i will however have absolutely no sympathy for him if he gets hounded at every interview about it
3. If they try to defend the devs saying its too much work HW gave more that what ShB is giving currently this could change at Tokyo not a future reader afterall, HW is also the best comparison as was last time gave a new race.

Those that wanted to play female viera will play female viera those that wanted to play male viera will play as them if male viera is forcibly locked out some may go as female viera but a lot of those that wanted to play male won't. I cannot speak for other posters but if male viera is different to what i may want i will still play like i did au ra also i would be content that they were added period the main issue i have is gender locking itself and i personally would find it a very bad direction for ffxiv to take.
Also Yoshi P specifically hated 'cute' male viera not male viera in general

I am not trying to play devils advocate here (you haven't accused me of it, just starting off with that statement lol), more like trying to keep everyone hopeful but prepared for what they might find the worst case (myself included lol). Like for me, I really want a bestial race and in fact if it was just a straight up port form Ronso FFX I'd be like "WOOOT" lol (although I find that unlikely).

However, taking part in the conversation and puzzle (will they wont they lol) I found I might think male Viera to be interesting (if its a bit feral like, at least one of the clans). . So I'm here for an honest discussion. I know you haven't accused me (so I'm not trying to defend myself against you haha) but I just want people to know I'm not trying to stir a pot just cause, especially with what I say next lol.

With all that said, consider that all the people who thought the reasons why blue mage was limited (myself included) were all issues that were like "but you could fix that.. but why..".

You list out how the male Viera even with their "issues" shouldn't be banned from existing, this is what many blue fans did before (and still after) as well. Also considering that ancient word of Thal (Yoshi-P) has said that Blue Mage will be X and so it was, and Viera will be Y... and so it may be? It's not that he can't change his mind, he has.

I guess I add that because you said he didn't like a cute male viera but I think it's more accurate to say he doesn't like male viera because they will feel cute (in his opinion) - the distinction small but important. It's possible to show him a design where he changes his mind, but I believe he said it in a way that is "how I keep seeing male viera, it's cute, I don't like it" (so he's thought of it on his own at least, and doesn't really like it). To such a point that he has also said they might be genderlocked (even after unlocking other races, of course this was said LONG ago).

For genderlocking:

• May be hard to believe they design two whole races, but the leak has been so accurate that it feels like one must include a lion race concept somewhere
• SE used the miqote lore that was used to lock genders before
• Yoshida has said he may lock Viera and make another male race (many many years ago)
• The designer of Viera may feel uncomfortable with male Viera (he never made them before in his other three tactic games, if he had wanted to in the past he probably would have already)
• The reveal picture for the jobs was two images in silhouette but Viera was just a bunch of females with no blank space (like the shadowbringer landing page website)
• They've played very coy around the race, "Japan Fanfest" being the extent of an answer about it

If genderlocked then for Ronso-like/lion race:

• Ronso have similar feet to viera, the system they just made
• Ronso have elvaan like shaped ears, when the talk of Elvaan ears and helmet system came up Yoshida silenced that fast
• The hair Viera use is a bit like the hair you might see on Ronso
• Not important like the other new systems added but Ronso happen to have claws like Viera
• They're not cute like bunny, but there is a concept art that looks a bit like a Ronso (so the concept art could have lead to a departure of bunny into this)
• The leak mentioned lion race and Ronso is one of SE's most iconic Lion races (there exists a few others but they're far less prevalent)

Not genderlocked, for lion Viera:

• Yoshida may find them not so cute anymore
• Meets the leak criteria
• Designer of Viera gets to finally release the counterpart and was able to write the lore that made them, giving them another opportunity to touch the world and FFXIV
• They're not genderlocked so that's not a issue anymore (complaints of dimorphism may happen though)
• They probably will look like how you would imagine a male solo-ing the world since the age of 13 (out in the wild nearly their whole life, killing on sight), so it seems lore approriate (if they were tough, buff, and muscular)
• One of the concept arts looks a bit like a Ronso (hair puff chest, not terribly long ears, full hair, and a bit of a mane)

Not Genderlocked, normal Viera male (leak was mistaken or there are two races):

• People will be upset if it's locked, they have unlocked other races already and that was a well loved decision
• Male viera have similar lore to male miqote such that npc will be very rare but they don't have to lock the race
• They've made concept art for males

For Two Races:

• Meets critera of leak
• Isn't genderlocked
• . . . .
• chirp
• chirp
• Not supporting evidence but it would be pretty cool surprise

Leak is Yoshi-P and he's needed a destresser:

• He and team are so overworked that they come to the forums to watch us roll around wondering what in the world will happen, lion is the ultimate cake and it's a lie
• Male Viera

Also possible leak mistaken a race concept that is NPC only (and isn't Yoshi, I was just joking about that but I figure whoever leaked either has a lot of access or their design teams are very open), but I feel like with how they reported things that they would know better than to mistake say a beastmen race or anything like that. If the leak is a lie and there is only one race and it is genderlocked I'm going to flip a table for you guys lol, I imagine if there is only one non-genderlocked race then it is either lion viera or a good ol regular viera male.

For little boi bunny / boi clan:

• Elvaan ears on a small alphatoad (yes I know lol), Yoshida wanted to hush that conversation up really fast. Conversation was in context of a system for helmets that Viera will use.
• One of the many concept arts is of small bunny bois. (some argue are children some argue are more just child like because like lala small looking = young).

Keeping in mind we have a long standing tradition for two clans per race, with the possibility that the clans are quite different (hyur).

[Jaywalker]

-------

Thank you for making this and for trying to be very fair in it, think you did a pretty good job of capturing the different stances! I've been watching the back and forth a little, the only thing I want to add is that in terms of Yoshida personally not being into the cute spin on male viera--in my experience that kind of thing can get weird when it's franchises, large creative teams, and customer demand is overwhelmingly in contrast.

Ex. A franchise introduces character A, who is enormously popular with fans. Some of the creators aligned with the property openly express interest in working with character A. However, creative director B hates character A with a burning passion for subjective personal reasons and has functionally banned the character for the foreseeable future.

When I've seen that kind of thing happen it pretty much always wreaks hell on the company, not to mention customer relations. So for male Viera, while I expect personal preference might play a role in whatever happens I'd be very skeptical of personal preference alone resulting in a full gender lock because that kind of behavior can really wreck the consumer base. I expect SE to be smarter about stuff like that.

Aside, honestly I wish there was some kind of poll for predictions on this subject. For all the debate going on it might be really funny to track expectations as we get closer to Tokyo fanfest then compare with what actually comes out.

[Crushnight]

snip

Nothing wrong with presenting opinions at all so don't feel like it's devil's advocate but more like a counter argument

With that said while the idea of Ronso does have merit i think it is unlikely due to a few reasons;
1. Player demand. I believe that male Viera is on more players wish list than male Ronso this isn't to say it shouldn't be included if possible just that if we was asked which we prefer i expect male viera to win
2. No appearance or mentions in or out of game. While au ra had sparce lore if any before HW we did have yugiri who was around since 2.2 which shows how long they were planning a new race not necessarily au ra but definetly a new race was concieved at that point whereas Ronso has had nothing no npc no mention in either lore book, lore book 2 being the more prevalent as if wanted to hint potential Ronso single line in that book be good enough hint
3. Business sense. This is probably most baffling to me as not adding male Viera is probably a bigger gamble than anything else why take that risk when they know the biggest profit is in the Viera as a whole rather than just female Viera and an unknown race.

If Matsuno and Yoshi are both set against male Viera then i would feel it more of a mistake to add Viera in general as no matter what gender locking will create a negative stigma that a lot of kmmos have of pandering too much to a specific audience, cause more discomfort with the community than adding them but with a different look to what each individual person wants.

I know i am basically wishing at this point as i do really want to be a bunboi but adding a second gender locked race is probably going to create more issues than just adding male Viera would. SE has full creative freedom with male Viera whereas adding any other race in ff would be as restrictive as female Viera are if it was a new race completely the next question is was it worth it over male Viera?

[Hunky]

These are the same people who will be just as much up in arms if Viera isn't what they personally want or expect. They say they want male viera, but they each want specific versions of male Viera and will be just as upset if it's not their version than if they got something that isn't even Viera.

Exactly! We might just get male Viera, but it won't be what we're expecting or hoping for.

I think it's safe to say that most people are expecting male Viera to be the male equivalent of what female Viera are now. We're expecting handsome, tall, muscular bunny men. Like below.

But we're probably going to end up with something like this

All they have to do is slap the name "male Viera" on it and it's done.

Throughout this thread, Shippuu has made many good points. And that old quote from Yoshida about potentially creating a separate male counterpart to Viera shows that he is still open to implementing gender-locked races into the game.

Consider all the evidence:

1. Yoshida's old quote about creating a male counterpart race to Viera because "male rabbits might be kinda weird". Again, this goes back to this old-fashioned, close-minded idea of women equaling cute and sexy, and men equaling brutish and savage. Many Asian mmos do this, and FFXIV was one of them at some point. Just because they unlocked male Miqo'te, female Roegadyn, and female Highlander, doesn't mean they're going to not genderlock a race in the future. This can totally happen again.

2. Genderlocking is still happening in the game. Just recently, Alma and Ramza's hairstyles were genderlocked. Clearly the team still has this mentality of "this is for boys" and "this is for girls". Bunny ears are for girls, and bestial facial features are for boys.

3. Female Viera were presented as "The Viera Race" with no male in sight. If they didn't mention genderlocking, it's probably because they're well aware of the potential backlash.

4. The lore created for male Viera is the same kind of lore that was created for the previously unplayable male Miqo'te. It's as if they were preparing us to not expect males.

5. Yoshida danced around questions regarding male Viera. Instead of replying with, "We are going to include male Viera; they're just not ready yet," he simply said, "There's still Tokyo Fanfest." And Yoshi is usually good about telling us when something isn't ready.

6. In the Game Watch interview, when asked about male Viera, Yoshida suggested that players go back and read the lore in the game (the same lore that's hellbent on emphasizing the point on how incredibly rare males are).

Here are some lore screenshots.

"In other words, tread not the wood with hopes of finding a male Viera, for you will be met with naught but disappointment...or worse, death."

"The male lives alone and dies alone."

"I spent many a moon in the Desert Sapphire, and while I saw all manner of wondrous creatures, not once did I lay mine eyes upon a male Viera, nor did I hear of one living in the city. They simply do not exist to us."

Either we're getting trolled, or they're really trying to beat the idea into our heads that male Viera is not going to happen. This is the same lore that Yoshida told us to refer to when asked about male Viera.

7. The blue leaker's information has been extremely accurate. And according to the leaker, we are getting two new races. Considering that creating a new race takes a lot of time and energy, it's unlikely that we are getting two new races (unless they're genderlocked, cutting the time and energy needed in half). Remember, Yoshida himself said they would consider creating a male counterpart to Viera. So if we're getting a lion-like race, it's probably going to be Rev, Revgaji, or Ronso. That would be the male counterpart Yoshi was talking about. And considering that Ivalice might be one of the settings of the game, Rev/Revgaji might just be that male counterpart race.

Now, I truly, really, very much hope that I am wrong, and that we do get amazing, handsome, bunny men that are truly the male equivalent of the current female Viera.

But I'm scared to get my hopes up. When you have this much evidence stacked against you, getting your hopes up is a bad idea.

And this sucks because the female Viera are absolutely gorgeous. For anyone who wants to play an attractive female character, they're a dream. I just wish males were given a chance to have the same kind of sex appeal. But instead, we're probably going to end up with a bestial male counterpart. The best-case scenario is we get two races that are both not gender-locked: Viera and a bestial race. Let the bestial race fans get a chance to play as a bestial race, and let the rest of us who want to play as a drop-dead gorgeous bunny person get a chance too. But again, if it seems too good to be true, it probably is.