A question for long time FF11 players and maybe WoW players as well

[SenorPatty]

I don't think I properly worded my question in the title but I'll try to elaborate here: What sort of content did you guys get after they implemented for the last time a job/class in your game?

Today I was thinking about the new jobs we're getting, which then got me thinking about how we might get closer to "partial" (if that makes sense) job skills homogeneity, which then got me thinking the possibility of expy jobs and then finally thinking "What happens after they can't put any new jobs in the game?"

I tried sifting through some patch notes for both games...and after 5 minutes of it, realized the playerbase could do this for me /yay

But yes, I'm genuinely curious. Was it like, regular stuff like dgns or some really you'd-never-see-it-coming type of content. Also, for FF11 players, what thing you predict SE would work on after they decide they can't put anymore jobs in the game?


EDIT: Also, when I say long time, I guess I was thinking about some players who basically reached the end life of new class/job implementations. I guess the question isn't really for long time players but rather anyone who basically managed to play through that period.

[SilverObi]

Speaking from XI's perspective, after implementing new jobs in an expansion, the focus went on endgame content and balancing. Honestly that's what XIV could stand to get: varied and accessible endgame. In XI (mostly due to its horizontal progression but also even after upward level growth) there was numerous endgame activities that anyone could enter after some prerequisites. And all the gear from this content was useful in one way or another. XIV would need to either change its progression style once it reaches its twilight years or slowly adopt more customization to get out of the current treadmill that is only sustainable up to a certain point until it either explodes or needs to get squashed back down artificially (making the fun of power creep go away).

[Driven]

Just to echo what SilverObi said, with ffxi’s “horizontal” progression system, it seemed like XI had more opportunity to tweak end game. It seems like XI got better with balancing jobs later in its life. And because we could keep our end game gear for some times years before it was out dated, it made end game less of a grind (at least in my opinion).
Don’t get me wrong some things including some jobs got the shaft (loldrg)
So maybe to answer your question directly- I’d like to see XIV get more of a variety of endgame that isn’t a gear grind.

[Arkdra]

Just to echo what SilverObi said, with ffxi’s “horizontal” progression system, it seemed like XI had more opportunity to tweak end game. It seems like XI got better with balancing jobs later in its life. And because we could keep our end game gear for some times years before it was out dated, it made end game less of a grind (at least in my opinion).
Don’t get me wrong some things including some jobs got the shaft (loldrg)
So maybe to answer your question directly- I’d like to see XIV get more of a variety of endgame that isn’t a gear grind.

I will never understand this opinion. It makes zero sense. If I added up literally ever single bit of time I spent getting capped tomestones and then the bits required to upgrade the gear that I got from capped tomestones, I would maybe equal just the time I spent on my scorpion harness, to say nothing of the half dozen other extremely expensive, extremely tedious to camp rare drops that I also had before I quit. And I've been playing this game non-stop since 2.0. I also had significantly more fun along the way getting the tomestones since they weren't 12+ hour camping sessions.

OP the answer to your questions is nothing, because the team that designs jobs and works on balance will either get split up onto other projects to help them along or still be devoted to game balance 100% of the time. In WoW, they rework jobs nearly every expansion and in that game, every job has multiple specs that also needs work so in reality, they are working on 35 or so jobs instead of the 10 or 11 it would look like at first glance. In this game, if they were to release an expansion with no new jobs (which they should) then the most likely thing to expect would be tighter balance, more care put into existing jobs and maybe slightly more new stuff for existing jobs. Can't help but notice that SB went from 5 new skills for everyone to 4 and I am wondering if we're going to go down to 3 in ShB.

[Aeloria]

11 is mostly on maintenance mode with focus being on job balance, maintaining current end game content and releasing new end game content that can be produced on their reduced development team/budget. So basically 11 gets monthly content updates which puts a different boss in their Ambuscade content this is actually instance content and players earn currency to spend on gear, mats for relics and other high end weapon. They recently added a new end game content that reuses resources of previous content so basically its a new coat of paint but with more current rewards. While there is probably room to add more jobs in this game it will never happen as that would probably be far too time consuming to implement. So I think if we look at 11 they will turn their focus to making other types of content or reusing types of content for new rewards. SE already has a track record in 14 reusing old dungeons for current relic grind prior to using Eureka for this purpose. For better or worse new paint jobs on old content is typically a smart way to use resources/save money/time.

[Elkanah]

I don't think I properly worded my question in the title but I'll try to elaborate here: What sort of content did you guys get after they implemented for the last time a job/class in your game?

To answer your question, balancing for the most part on jobs, and focusing towards the endgame, rather than the early game. Unlike FFXIV, you didn't need to progress through any of the MSQ to level and party. You just needed the job, and getting to the party zone as were applicable at the time (Valkurm Dunes, Yuhtunga Jungle, etc etc). FFXI was LESS about the actual leveling experience, and more endgame (without MSQ for the most part). There was the whole limit break thing with maat, but that's for a whole other discussion. Most of the leveling was either incredibly tedious, or had the most amazing sessions (like having someone train a certain wyvern from one end of the zone, all the way to the other end of the cave where it spawns, wrecking everyone's parties along the way). Even the Notorious monster system didn't require a certain level or progression tied to MSQ. Just needed to be able to kill it at your level or higher (or with a party), whence it would spawn (whether it was 1hrs, 8 or 24-72hrs etc) to get some gear that would last you awhile. If you were at endgame, you'd be waiting possibly hours on end for that drop. Peacock charm, Eurytos bow (for Ranger class), Joyeuse (the infamous RDM/PLD Joy toy!) among other endgame related weapons for later use.

Today I was thinking about the new jobs we're getting, which then got me thinking about how we might get closer to "partial" (if that makes sense) job skills homogeneity, which then got me thinking the possibility of expy jobs and then finally thinking "What happens after they can't put any new jobs in the game?"

If they can't put out any new jobs anymore, they'll probably work at the new jobs. With Stormblood and Shadowbringers dropping 32 bit support, among a few other things over the next expansion, we're no longer in the talk of "ps2 limitations", as they may be able to produce better quality of life things with no other older systems tying the game down. Then question becomes, how long before "PS4 limitations" becomes the new punchline?

But yes, I'm genuinely curious. Was it like, regular stuff like dgns or some really you'd-never-see-it-coming type of content. Also, for FF11 players, what thing you predict SE would work on after they decide they can't put anymore jobs in the game?

All the expansions had about 20+ zones each added. Some 40 zones or more. Mostly for endgame, however, some new places to level up. Endgame zones added for things like Sky, Sea, Dynamis, Limbus, Assault, NM hunting, Burning Circle Notorious monsters (think trial fights, but a certain amount of players are required to enter. From 3-6 depending on difficulty of content), but also RNG'd rewards (cause RNG lul). Some high price items, or exclusive (one item only in inventory) type of items that could be sold for gil/gold or kept and used for the entirety of your leveling or endgame for that job that could use it (for the most part).

EDIT: Also, when I say long time, I guess I was thinking about some players who basically reached the end life of new class/job implementations. I guess the question isn't really for long time players but rather anyone who basically managed to play through that period.

I played from the time FFXI was still level 50 in Japan, right before they released it in NA in 2002. It actually released a couple days before my birthday, so it was more of a present for me on my bulky PS2 than anything. I've continued to play it since the expansions released, and really only come back and fourth between it when I want to, and just chill with a new character and story or if I'm really bored and feel like playing on BLU or my BST for giggles when friends decide to want to come back and level. I've played through with many different Linkshells (our guilds in FFXI, since FC's were not available), from Rise of the Zilart, to Chains of Promathia, Treasures of Aht Urghan, Wings of the Goddess. I've also played into the abyssea expansions as they increased the level cap from 75 all the way to 99. And even played into the latest and last expansion Seekers of Adoulin.

The thing that changed the most, was endgame, along with having access to the trust system (which made solo leveling and playing 90% of almost ALL the expansions by yourself) in 2019. Before hand, you couldn't solo things like your level 50 limit break, 55, 60, 65, 70, 75 (maat fight for most of us), and then 80-99. Or you'd get someone level 75+ to help you farm the items to unlock those level caps. Now, you can just use your trusts (including the MAAT fight) to make it through all your leveling needs and story lines. There are some fights still difficult even at 99, but it depends on the class and your skill.

FFXI didn't come with road maps on quests or missions. You either needed to:
A) Figure it out for yourself
or
B) Ask the community/look online for assistance, since the game wasn't tailored to us like we have it on FFXIV. BLU essentially brought back the community aspect, while short lived.

The problem with FFXI, is that the game became somewhat stale after abyssea started releasing. The cap eventually reached 99 after some years. But the community already started pulling from the game after the game reached 80. 75 was the most we had ever seen. And the issues that came with getting 80-99, only came from players with the main/sub class problems we were expecting to see. By then, people started quitting the game, and here we are years later. Some people stayed, some servers merged, some quit and never returned, some come back once in awhile for the nostalgia.

Would I ever like FFXIV to BE FFXI? H.E.C.K. N.O.
Would I like to see some endgame content come into FFXIV? Yes I would!

Eureka was the part of FFXI I'd like to never go back and experience. Although Hydatos looks interesting, and has suddenly perked my spirits.

But things like Dynamis, Sky, Sea, Limbus, Assault, Besieged, Einherjar, I would love to see an cool implementation of some day! Maybe not the EXACT same thing. But something similar or like-minded to it!

[Awful]

I can only speak from a WoW perspective so I can't comment on FFXI content, for WoW its come a long ways where in Vanilla WoW we had 40 man raids/20 man raids and dungeons really for endgame where classes were horribly imbalanced (you only had 1 actual tank being warriors, shamans were Horde only, Paladins were Alliance only) so you were rather limited in what you could bring for raids. Come Burning Crusade the 2nd expansion every class was balanced to do everything with some classes having a slight edge over other tanks due to different bosses, WotLK was more of the same cept they brought in Death Knights as a new class and balanced them and changed/revamped every class yet again.

That's been Blizzards trend just for an example of the first 3 expansions, in Battle for Azeroth (BfA) for endgame content there's Looking for raid (LFR), Normal/Heroic/Mythic difficulty raids and Dungeons, as well as a Mythic+ system, Invasions, World quests, it's a lot and again all classes can do everything but classes like Demon Hunter (tank/DPS class) is more favored for Mythic+ dungeons than actual raid tanking and some healers are more of the same, better raid healers and some are better dungeon healers.

Gearing now is also a pain because you need certain traits on your armor and some are just flat out bad and some are really good as there's only a handful of good and the other 60% are just meh, which leads to ilvl acquisition where you can "proc" an ilvl increase without any effort. I hate this system because I can get an ilvl 380 piece and a random PUG that was AFK can get an ilvl 400 item for example because he got lucky RNG for it to drop and then RNG to Titanforge/Warforge the item to higher ilvls has no place in an MMO.

Another thing to note is most tanks are quite self sustainable with active mitigation and rotating CDs while being able to self heal yourself whether it be actively or burst healing vs what we have here in FFXIV where you rotate your CDs effectively and DPS. One of the big things I'd like to see from WoW is the Mythic+ system introduced there be put into FFXIV I feel that Palace of the Dead/HoH already yielded great results why not have dungeons that are Savage dungeons where you could get gear/rewards? It's arguably the biggest and best change in an MMO where you do hard dungeons, with trash that needs attention/awareness and I feel like it'd shake up the dungeons we have in FFXIV and promote more longevity, although FFXIV has so many dungeons.

I kinda trailed off but that's what I got from my experience so far from the 3 expansions that I heavily played, I played Cataclysm for all of a month and hated it, Mists of Panderia I only PvP'd, Warlords of Draenor was terrible, and Legion was really well done since its class fantasy was superbly done.

[Fawkes]

I don't think I properly worded my question in the title but I'll try to elaborate here: What sort of content did you guys get after they implemented for the last time a job/class in your game?

But yes, I'm genuinely curious. Was it like, regular stuff like dgns or some really you'd-never-see-it-coming type of content. Also, for FF11 players, what thing you predict SE would work on after they decide they can't put anymore jobs in the game?

After they stopped adding jobs to FFXI they did a final expansion that was like a farewell tour, and now they put out some harder versions of old fights now and then.

If FFXIV stops adding jobs then I'd expect there to be a new FF MMO out.

[Taebok]

Every new job introduced brings this game closer to it's end.
And let's face it, there's only so much you can do with an MMO.
Collect 8 things, turn them in.
Kill lesser mobs, then boss.
PvP
It's no wonder MMO's are dying, there's been zero innovation since they were first introduced.
New jobs is just a way of saying "we have no ideas on how to improve the game"