Astro over whm ? I think not

[NorthernLadMSP]

My wish is that AST gets a huge makeover in Shadowbringers. I'm honestly kind of over the job in all aspects besides it being fun in PVP.

I just pray that the new healer isn't another WHM or SCH copy.

[Neela]

I play as main as whm since middle second expansion and im lvl 62 astro i must say playing as astro suck FOR ME

thats the problem at the bottom ground u compare a cls u didn't even maxed out with a cls you are playing for nearly 3-4 years... your view and experience are both not neutral tho. If u get in touch with the whole toolkit and endgame... you are clearly going to ask yourself why u have opened this thread in the first place.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

My wish is that AST gets a huge makeover in Shadowbringers. I'm honestly kind of over the job in all aspects besides it being fun in PVP.

I just pray that the new healer isn't another WHM or SCH copy.

Them making another WHM/SCH clone is the main reason I don't even want to see a new healer. It's going to be a shame if Dancer has all the base skills of a WHM and SCH and just some dance abilities at the end.
I also don't think it's a good idea to implement another healer when you have WHM right now that barely has its own unique identity in the role.

[NorthernLadMSP]

Them making another WHM/SCH clone is the main reason I don't even want to see a new healer. It's going to be a shame if Dancer has all the base skills of a WHM and SCH and just some dance abilities at the end.
I also don't think it's a good idea to implement another healer when you have WHM right now that barely has its own unique identity in the role.

Will certainly be interesting. We figured Dancer would be a TP based healer, but since they're removing TP . . .

[Kalise]

Them making another WHM/SCH clone is the main reason I don't even want to see a new healer. It's going to be a shame if Dancer has all the base skills of a WHM and SCH and just some dance abilities at the end.
I also don't think it's a good idea to implement another healer when you have WHM right now that barely has its own unique identity in the role.

Well, the other side to this is with another healer, and upcoming rework to WHM... What better time to make some large decisions that could better carve out an identity for WHM as well as introduce a new healer with an additional new identity?

It's the same thing for the Tanks. They're using 5.0 as a way of differentiating the 3 existing classes a bit more, in addition to adding in the new Gunbreaker.

How well it'll go, I guess we'll see during the next Fanfest when they start to cover changes to combat classes.

[loreleidiangelo]

Well, the other side to this is with another healer, and upcoming rework to WHM... What better time to make some large decisions that could better carve out an identity for WHM as well as introduce a new healer with an additional new identity?

It's the same thing for the Tanks. They're using 5.0 as a way of differentiating the 3 existing classes a bit more, in addition to adding in the new Gunbreaker.

How well it'll go, I guess we'll see during the next Fanfest when they start to cover changes to combat classes.

Weren't job gauges supposed to be the crap that fixed this back in Stormblood? I doubt the devs even fully understand why tanking and healing balance is so off the whack in this game.

[Kalise]

Weren't job gauges supposed to be the crap that fixed this back in Stormblood?

I dunno...

I know that none of the healers got anything new or interesting with their job gauges in SB.

Also, only AST has a job gauge that has an impact on Healer balance (Because Cards >>>>>>>>>>>> Everything that WHM brings because... Well, WHM doesn't bring anything other than heals...), SCH's benefits are outside of their gauge and are just because they have some really strong skills (Such as Chain Strategem and Deployment Tactics)

I doubt the devs even fully understand why tanking and healing balance is so off the whack in this game.

*Shrug*

Who knows.

Well, most of it is because healing power scaling. Meaning that healers are literally just defined by how much damage they give the party, because no-matter what you're going to have the healing in spades to not only cover what damage is done, but also to afford Tanks to sit in DPS stance all day.

Outside of that, I guess it depends on how much feedback they've gotten. They've already mentioned they looked at feedback around Tank stances (As well as noting feedback about WHM to the point of doing the buffs to Assize and enmity reductions across the board as a bandaid until 5.0 for a more in depth change). So, we'll have to wait and see if they've looked at other feedback too and if so, how they choose to tackle it (Hopefully not more Secret of the Lilly II trash...)

[loreleidiangelo]

Well, most of it is because healing power scaling. Meaning that healers are literally just defined by how much damage they give the party, because no-matter what you're going to have the healing in spades to not only cover what damage is done, but also to afford Tanks to sit in DPS stance all day

This is part of it, but part of it is also that tanks and healers are uber homogenized and don't have any niches or weaknesses anymore. Look at ARR SCH's ability to handle sustained AOE damage vs now and tell me that HW didn't completely throw the baby out with the bathwater in terms of healing design. Look at ARR warrior (even though post-2.1 it was still OP LMAO) vs PLD and compare to now.

Aside from aesthetics and a handful of playstyle differences, tanks and healers in this game handle all situations, no matter how different, with an equal amount of ease, and I think that really limits design, and frankly makes meta choices boil down to little more than "what makes our group do the most DPS".

[Kalise]

Aside from aesthetics and a handful of playstyle differences, tanks and healers in this game handle all situations, no matter how different, with an equal amount of ease, and I think that really limits design, and frankly makes meta choices boil down to little more than "what makes our group do the most DPS".

Ehh... It's a double edged sword to be honest.

Since, done poorly you end up with stale meta that is just based on DPS. Meanwhile with niches and weaknesses, AT BEST you'd have to level up all the classes of a role and keep swapping between them based on the encounter (Which would be equally boring in terms of people would find the "Meta" for each specific encounter)

But done right, making it so that all classes can participate in all content allows them to put in the core skills required in order to perform in all content, but then expand on each class with unique mechanics and utility.

One of the issues is that expanding on classes with unique mechanics and utility didn't happen equally. AST is just using its baseline utility that it had upon its inception. Meanwhile SCH has gotten great utility skills in HW and SB (Though, the power of Deployment Tactics comes down to healing power being whack so your massive shields get spread in an AoE to create mechanic cheesing bubbles) and WHM has been left behind with no interesting mechanics nor any noteworthy utility (The best thing they have for them is great sustained healing. But when everyone's healing a billion with just oGCD's it matters not...)

Similar thing with Tanks. WAR has amazing skills from HW and SB, heck, their entire DPS stance and skills come from HW as well as Inner Release probably the best DPS skill among any tank (In addition to Fell Cleave). PLD has gotten a bunch of utility skills, which all are meaningless because who cares when healers just heal/shield for a billion and it's DRK that's stuck with not having received much at all (Except for a lacklustre rework...), like TBN is nice but it's no Inner Release...

With more equalized distribution of cool mechanics and skills, there's a better chance of people being able to utilize any of the classes within a role, if they're all able to participate in all content with core skills but then get additional utility that makes them have different priority based on encounters or party compositions (Such as how DRG is more favoured when there's a BRD/MCH to benefit from the piercing debuff) then you get all the benefits of the "Niche and Weaknesses" style of balancing without having to FORCE certain comps.

[Dmhlucky]

Give Whm Misery and Solice Stances.

With Solice active whm non regen cures (basically just Not regen and Medica 2) now grant a shield for 25% of the health healed, Esuna becomes AOE And Whm passively gets 5% damage taken reduction.

With Misery active heals grant a buff for 10 seconds that boosts Crit and Direct hit rates by 1, 2, 3% each (Based on tiers). Holy Imposes a 2% increased damage taken on the target for 10 seconds and stone 4 has a 50% chance of a guaranteed Crit and instant cast when an Aero DOT crits.

Both passively Boost healing potancy by 5%

I don't honestly think any of that is too powerful. And it fits into the Hardcore healer or DPS stances that Cleric's Stance user to provide. And would make whm stand out a bit from the other healers.

That or give us a mace and Hexa Strike..