Revelations from Keynote II

[Iscah]

Something interesting in the art panel last night when they were talking about Alisaie's redesign for Heavensward: the intention (as part of the design brief) that she would be an eventual replacement for Minfilia's role in the Scions, once she matured into it.

It's worth noting that there have been a number of threads specifically requesting a Nier: Automata crossover event since the game's initial release.

I know there have been lots of requests for a "crossover event", but previous crossover events (to my awareness: Yo-Kai Watch, Dragon Quest and Rathalos) have been low-key temporary events or, for Rathalos, a short 'excuse plot' to establish the fight. I would have no issue with an equivalent NieR event - I wouldn't be interested personally, but I know people have wanted it for a long time and it would make them happy. I'd either do it for glamour items or skip it because I'm not interested.

My issue is with the scale of this crossover. This is an entire permanent raid questline, with lots of storytelling and multiple dungeons, that is apparently picking up the central concept of a separate game entirely and pasting it into FFXIV lore.

Yes, they can probably work it in with "Allagan AI robots" or something, but I dislike the fact that the concept has to be introduced to fit this foreign narrative instead of because FFXIV's story-writers decided that their story called for the existance of Allagan AI robots (and whatever other concepts they have to work in).

It cheapens the world of FFXIV. Instead of having its own original lore, it becomes a patchwork of other stories that you know exist in other games. Which is fine if that's the entire premise of the game from the start (eg. Kingdom Hearts) but when it starts off original and then all these story-heavy crossovers start creeping in, it's disappointing.

If I want to play NieR, I will play NieR. I don't want to be forced to play NieR in the middle of FFXIV.

Also to note, the knuckles on the [new character's] left hand look like they have jagged edges, making it seem like whatever this is, wasn't designed (I.e. Cosmetic) at least in its entirety. Kind of looks as though they lost the skin on their knuckles and this purple stuff was underneath.

I think the knuckles look the same as the mark on their cheek.

And the suggestion that it's G'raha is rather interesting. I've suggested before that it's possible we could see him back again, especially if there is time travel in play.

What do you suppose an unknown period of time sleeping in the Crystal Tower might do to a person? Odd crystalline growths on the skin?

Little Girl is Minfilia! Time travel? Consequence of "absorbing Light?"

It's not just young Minfilia from the past. She still has her glowing "Word of the Mother" eyes.

... and now everyone gets their long-desired bunny girl waifus. Happy?!

More happy about unmasked Urianger.

>_>
<_<

not keynote related, but this was written on the high seraph Ultima figure:

[...] and thus thought the collective desire of mankind to worship what might bring him low was Ultima made a living primal.

Should that be "through"?

[CyrusArjuna]

Anyway, the OG Nier, too, is a pretty basic, mediocre video game ... but with wonderful art, music, characters, everything, and then the story breaks your heart. Then you play through the second half of the game again with some slight changes, but it's just coming back to finish the job and break your spirit, too. I openly cried several times during that game. So when Automata was announced, I eagerly told Gamer Escape I was going to review it. I couldn't wait to write a review like, "This game is objectively middling at best, but you have to drop your entire life and play it right now." but Yoko Taro threw me yet another curveball and it's just a fantastic video game all-around, really.

So here's the thing: Automata isn't that sad. It's emotional, but very dry emotional, and most of it's in the context of the late-game. However, it's beautiful is many ways, and deeply philosophical if you read into it. But it plays off a plot point of the OG NieR, so it will spoil the entire game if you do Automata first, just be aware of that. There are also some returning characters references, so I would highly, highly recommend at least watching a playthrough of NieR before doing Automata if you want the full experience. Still, all in all, for everything sad in Automata, there's something fun, or just weird, or interesting, or supremely messed up.

A raid series based off of the OG Nier could actually work with what we've learned in the last few patches without any Interdimensional Rift shenanigans. Given the twist at the end of the game...

(and I totally cried several times during the OG Nier too lol)

[Anonymoose]

I'm just trusting in the system this time around. We had all these same doubts and debates with Ivalice and (yeah, Matsuno-san broke a few vases they're still sweeping up, but) everyone worked hard to fit it into the world and make it something new and it was totally worth it and I'm sure they can do that again.

What's Yoko Taro's mantra? "Tell Square Enix to give me money, and I will do it for you."

He seems perfectly capable of manifesting his insanity within the confines of, "Hydaelyn is isolated; your ideas will be manifested anew within this world to fit this world. Other than that, do whatever you want and don't bruise the world lore too badly." Hell, what if he just turns following those rules into part of the craziness?

I'm usually the strictest one in the room but...

Worst case scenario, one isolated raid questline is a mess and we still got to play an MMO raid randomly custom-designed by Yoko Taro and Yosuke Saito.

Strap me in.

[Dualblade]

I pointed this out in another thread but gonna say it again here: Its very easy to make YoRHa fit into XIV without making it involve anything outside the planet (other then Omega jumpstarting Allagan tech)

In the Fractal dungeon we encounter Manikans, which look like Hyurs (if they weren't once Hyurs/clones given that they are found in Fractal). They are a nod to the Manikins of Dissidia.

The Manikins are revealed in 012 to have been created from materials found in the Void, being able to grow into copies of those around them but having no will of their own essentially being puppets. Chaos, Cosmos, and even the Dissidia version of 1's Warrior of Light are revealed to be Manikins, with a few other characters theorizing that they might also be such.

In NieR: Automata its eventually revealed that the YoRHa androids have the same core as the Machines they fight, making a very similar case there to that of the Machines, that alongside how human-like the machines have become they are more alike then anyone thought outside those who were in the know.

Point being outside the spoilers, YoRHa could easily be varients of the Manikins, either as an elite version of them or a varient that survived to the present day. If anything it isn't the YoRHa you should be worried about being in XIV, its what else in NieR and more importantly, Drakengard, might be brought into the game as well.

[silentwindfr]

it can be simpler, it can be a rest of a calamity before that was found on an island land of earth and suddenly awaken.... hell it can be even like to the world of light...

[Cilia]

Now that I've done some digging, I'm certainly hoping the NieR raid doesn't include a true ending choice that deletes our character data.

*Darth Sidious voice*: Do it.

While it's a very unfair choice, that's life!

Yes, they can probably work [the NieR Automata crossover] in with "Allagan AI robots" or something, but I dislike the fact that the concept has to be introduced to fit this foreign narrative instead of because FFXIV's story-writers decided that their story called for the existance of Allagan AI robots (and whatever other concepts they have to work in).

It cheapens the world of FFXIV. Instead of having its own original lore, it becomes a patchwork of other stories that you know exist in other games. Which is fine if that's the entire premise of the game from the start (eg. Kingdom Hearts) but when it starts off original and then all these story-heavy crossovers start creeping in, it's disappointing.

If I want to play NieR, I will play NieR. I don't want to be forced to play NieR in the middle of FFXIV.

This is the ultimate issue I take with the heavy crossovers - they cheapen the world of Hydaelyn by splicing in large pieces of other worlds. While there have been some big references before, they've all been one-off events that have characters explicitly not native to Hydaelyn (Lightning, Shantotto, Iroha) or otherwise have little to no impact on its own world (Yo-kai Watch, Rathalos). The Crystal Tower was the big reference in 2.x, but so much of it was changed around that it doesn't resemble III's story much beyond the names (Doga and Unei weren't clones of ancient royalty, for starters).

The point is, if you want to play an Ivalice game go play that game. If you want to play NieR or its sequel, go play those games (the original might not be so easy to get ahold of, but still...). There's no need to drag them in here. (And I'm saying this as someone who did play some of Automata and did enjoy it, so I can appreciate it more than the Ivalice stuff... it's the principle of the matter. Hydaelyn, as a setting, should stand on its own merits. That said, I am eagerly looking forward to the gear, if nothing else. The Head Bandage is a poor substitute for the YoRHa "headband"...)

It's not just young Minfilia from the past. She still has her glowing "Word of the Mother" eyes.

Noticed that a bit late. That means her de-aging is more likely to be a consequence of "absorbing light"... or some complex nonsense we can't guess yet.

More happy about unmasked Urianger.

That was more of an exasperated comment than a serious one. The vast majority of people asking for Viera I've seen just have a bunny girl fetish and want them playable for that reason alone.

B-besides, we've already seen Urianger unmasked during our final showdown with the Warriors of Darkness!

---

The thing is... it's implied the Allagan manikins are soulless but flesh-and-blood beings. The YoRHa units, debatably, are the exact opposite - mechanical beings with genuine souls.

The most advanced Allagan machina we've seen aren't anywhere near as advanced as the YoRHa units. We do have some mammets that, arguably, have souls (Gigi the Goldsmith and "Vivi" from Hildibrand's 3.x story), but they're even less advanced. The YoRHa units are physically indistinguishable from ordinary humans.

That said, if I had to wager a guess now I would have to agree that Allag will probably have something to do with it (again...).

[Theodric]

As far as I see it, even a lot of FFXIV's original content involves taking elements from real world cultures and mythology, twisting them a bit and then implementing them in a way that fits into FFXIV's established setting. I don't have an issue with that and I also don't have an issue with crossover events as the track record so far has been positive and respectful. That aside, crossover events are becoming increasingly common in today's gaming world. They're an effective tactic and FFXIV handles them better than most games do - some of which don't even bother to try and make sense of how it all comes together.

[Mansion]

The first thing that came to my mind with Il Mheg is Sharlayan. That's actually kind of how I always imagined that place to be like, it has a fantas-ier dravanian feeling to it that I loved.

Now making sense of that is another job

[KageTokage]

I feel like Il Mheg is at the first shard because of the fact that it has those otherworldly beams of light shining down from sky in the same manner as wherever the WoL/D was in the trailer.

[Dualblade]

The thing is... it's implied the Allagan manikins are soulless but flesh-and-blood beings. The YoRHa units, debatably, are the exact opposite - mechanical beings with genuine souls.

The most advanced Allagan machina we've seen aren't anywhere near as advanced as the YoRHa units. We do have some mammets that, arguably, have souls (Gigi the Goldsmith and "Vivi" from Hildibrand's 3.x story), but they're even less advanced. The YoRHa units are physically indistinguishable from ordinary humans.

Do we ever learn anything about them? I always assumed they were nods to Dissidia, where most of them are just as you said. The few that are more then that are where I get the idea for YoRHa being able to be manikins in the XIV version. Even more so since the manikins that (seem to) gain souls in Dissidia are the ones given transplanted memories just as YoRHa have transplanted memories (though in that case its to give them a sense of purpose in fighting for humanity while they also are completed aware the memories don't belong to them.)

That said, if I had to wager a guess now I would have to agree that Allag will probably have something to do with it (again...).

So I kinda maybe, sorta, prior to Lore Book 2, had started coming up with a back story involving YoRHa in XIV that would have involved the First Astral Era civilization. Then I finally got to read it and realized the interpretation I had of the First Astral Era being about as technological as Allagans were ended up being wrong (I'm not even quite sure how I got the notion.)

So Allagans it has to be if it isn't more recent, so long as XIV YoRHa were made on Hydaelyn.