Revelations from Keynote II

[DarthSanguine]

So I kinda maybe, sorta, prior to Lore Book 2, had started coming up with a back story involving YoRHa in XIV that would have involved the First Astral Era civilization. Then I finally got to read it and realized the interpretation I had of the First Astral Era being about as technological as Allagans were ended up being wrong (I'm not even quite sure how I got the notion.)

So Allagans it has to be if it isn't more recent, so long as XIV YoRHa were made on Hydaelyn.

Shouldn't that be lore book 1? Since book 2 didn't have anything on past eras (at least not that far back).

[Dualblade]

Shouldn't that be lore book 1? Since book 2 didn't have anything on past eras (at least not that far back).

The first lore book has more direct info, but doesn't actually say much about the technological level they would have been at by the end of the First Astral Era into the Second Umbral, just that the Second Umbral/Astral didn't advance that much as they believed many of the advances made during the First Astral helped lead to their undoing.

The Second book doesn't really have much yes, but one little line at the start of the weapons section is what got me. "The image of a cyclop's cudgel may provide a glimpse at the type of simple weaponry prevalent during the First Astral Era."

On time travel: SE in general has been mostly good when it comes to the Stable Time Loop type of time travel. Any time travel for ShadowBringers seems like it wouldn't work as a loop though, and thats where things get messy unless we are never allowed to go back to the present.

[Cilia]

Do we ever learn anything about them? I always assumed they were nods to Dissidia, where most of them are just as you said. The few that are more then that are where I get the idea for YoRHa being able to be manikins in the XIV version. Even more so since the manikins that (seem to) gain souls in Dissidia are the ones given transplanted memories just as YoRHa have transplanted memories (though in that case its to give them a sense of purpose in fighting for humanity while they also are completed aware the memories don't belong to them.)

As shown by A2 and 9S, the YoRHa units are certainly capable of self-determination, even if it causes internal conflicts with their programming, and they very obviously have emotions and self-awareness. The Allagan manikins don't show any of these traits that, arguably, are what collectively define humanity (and thus human measure of "having a soul") - they just sit around in Azys Lla attacking intruders to the Fractal Continuum.

Dissidia's manikins don't show any of these traits either, with few exceptions. Chaos (an amalgam of 10 peoples' memories), Cosmos (a replica of Cid of the Lufaine's wife), and the I Warrior of Light (a replica of Cid himself). Even they may have started out without souls, simply carrying out roles assigned to them - but by the time of 012: Duodecim and Dissidia proper, they've very obviously developed emotions and some degree of self-determination. Conversely, the Allagan manikins show no degree of anything resembling sentience, simply acting as highly-advanced mechanical (?) guards for the Fractal Continuum.

That's not to say the XIV adaptation of the YoRHa units can't be top-secret, highly-advanced Allagan manikins... there's just no evidence leading to that conclusion. There's no information given on the Allagan manikins, though, so I will retract my earlier statement that they are definitely flesh-and-blood; they could easily be advanced clockwork constructs, but that's still not as advanced as a YoRHa unit (see above rambling on souls)...

Meh. Best thing to do at this point is shrug and wait, in my opinion.

Oh, yeah, and our oft-forgotten magitek armor "Maggie" arguably has a soul too.

[YianKutku]

Oh, yeah, and our oft-forgotten magitek armor "Maggie" arguably has a soul too.

As far as I can tell, though, self-awareness/self-determination and having a soul seems to be separate things in FFXIV.

Specifically, I'm thinking of Alpha. He was totally self-aware and could do plenty of things against and apart from his created purpose, but it was only at the end of the Omega raid series that the Echo works on Alpha, which Cid speculates is because Alpha has grown a soul just then.

We never did "hear" Maggie through the Echo, but that could be because her story is "done" for now. (And possibly because the lore team hadn't come up with that piece of lore about souls at the time.)

[DarthSanguine]

The thing is... it's implied the Allagan manikins are soulless but flesh-and-blood beings. The YoRHa units, debatably, are the exact opposite - mechanical beings with genuine souls.

The most advanced Allagan machina we've seen aren't anywhere near as advanced as the YoRHa units. We do have some mammets that, arguably, have souls (Gigi the Goldsmith and "Vivi" from Hildibrand's 3.x story), but they're even less advanced. The YoRHa units are physically indistinguishable from ordinary humans.

That said, if I had to wager a guess now I would have to agree that Allag will probably have something to do with it (again...).

The alternative is, if we are indeed going to the First Shard in Shadobringers (though I hope we aren't), then perhaps the new 24-man is set on another shard.

[Theodric]

As far as I see it, even a lot of FFXIV's original content involves taking elements from real world cultures and mythology, twisting them a bit and then implementing them in a way that fits into FFXIV's established setting. I don't have an issue with that and I also don't have an issue with crossover events as the track record so far has been positive and respectful. That aside, crossover events are becoming increasingly common in today's gaming world. They're an effective tactic and FFXIV handles them better than most games do - some of which don't even bother to try and make sense of how it all comes together.

[Mansion]

The first thing that came to my mind with Il Mheg is Sharlayan. That's actually kind of how I always imagined that place to be like, it has a fantas-ier dravanian feeling to it that I loved.

Now making sense of that is another job

[KageTokage]

I feel like Il Mheg is at the first shard because of the fact that it has those otherworldly beams of light shining down from sky in the same manner as wherever the WoL/D was in the trailer.

[Fenral]

Alternately, Emet-Selch is in Solus like we currently assume, and G'raha has traveled back in time from The Future™ to warn us of things to come (getting a bit crystally in the process), after waking up and realizing that we done broke it. This could have something to do with the calamity Salina foresaw and her true plan for the Crystal Tower, or it could be him trying to undo the mistake of thinking he needed to use the Tower to travel further down the timeline when really he just needed to join the Warrior of Light's band of exceedingly competent merry men. Since G'raha's arc was loosely patterned off of Desch from FFIII, "coming back to save us when no one else can, after we thought he was gone forever" would be a perfectly valid card to play without invalidating any established references.

Or he could even do all that and then get bodyjacked by Elidibus after he leaves Zenos, because the last heir to the Royal Allagan blood is almost certainly too sweet a host to pass up.

Of course, we technically don't know who that is, but the facial structure and voice from the future stuff going on have suddenly made G'raha Tia the Occam's Razor answer to the question of who is under that hood.

[Iscah]

Alternately, Emet-Selch is in Solus like we currently assume, and G'raha has traveled back in time from The Future™ to warn us of things to come (getting a bit crystally in the process), after waking up and realizing that we done broke it.

If it really does turn out to be G'raha, it's going to be a fantastic "called it" moment for me. I'll have to find the post I made suggesting it during the 4.4 discussion...

I don't think it's necessary for him to travel back from the Future to our time though - would make just as much sense (and put us in less danger of setting off paradoxes) if we go forward in time to where he emerged from the tower.

Any variation is possible at this point, of course.

B-besides, we've already seen Urianger unmasked during our final showdown with the Warriors of Darkness!

For all of about four scenes before he was straight back to the cowl and goggles. I was only just starting to get used to the fact that yes that's actually him after wondering what he looked like prettymuch the entire time up until then.

(And similar thing with Estinien. I was really quite distracted throughout Heavensward that I had no idea what he actually looks like under the helmet.)