SE: Please copyright takedown FFLogs.

[Lastelli]

Im ignorant here...what's the problem, i just checked it out for the fist time and it just looks like a place where players review their own flaws.

That's the problem. Many players don't want others to see their flaws and don't want to get better. They just want to enter pf and let other players carry them through content without being held accountable for their performance.

[Awha]

Im ignorant here...what's the problem, i just checked it out for the fist time and it just looks like a place where players review their own flaws. Don't many websites pertaining to mmorpgs have that?

I know league of legends is not a mmorpg but i mean, even i like to look at how pros play so i can do better...can someone tell me whats wrong here?

In my opinion it is because FFXIV is considered to be a hyper causal game, so some feel the bare minimum is good enough. Which in one sense baffles me since the reason I got into raiding in the first place was because someone in WoW called me certain expletives due to my performance in a dungeon, but due to those comments I started to look up guides that helped with gearing, rotation etc . . . and while learning how to play my class properly I found that I truly enjoyed raiding.

Some may call it "toxic", but I feel not saying anything and allowing someone to live with veil of ignorance is far more "toxic" and damaging not only for the player but for the community as a whole.

I am an odd ball though, I tend to think that is players want to play sub par for whatever reason they should do it within a static that understands that they are essentially asking to be carried. Though I understand that is an odd position since how do we fairly value optimal play etc . . . but that is also why I tend to tell my friends that for certain reasons are unable to execute rotations or mechanic to simply just wait for us to get on and we will trying to carry them through content without putting anyone else through that unwilling.

[AleXwern]

Well the new EU Dataprotection laws can make Logging of the Data quite problematic. Actually I see a possibility to make a quick bug by just sueing the page.

Do you actually know anything about said dataprotection laws. Point to me the paragraph that tells that this is illegal.

[AxlStream]

Gaming forums are notorious for attracting armchair devs and armchair lawyers...

[Tharia]

Do you actually know anything about said dataprotection laws. Point to me the paragraph that tells that this is illegal.

Actually I know quite a bit about that beast of a law and the danger with it. Technically the problem is that a third company collects data from me that does have Information that allow to get a profile about me without my agreement and I hardly consider the DPS Website with my Data as kind of system relevant since people clearly can use that Data to figure out who I am.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...6R0679&from=EN

(1)
The protection of natural persons in relation to the processing of personal data is a fundamental right. Article 8(1) of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union (the ‘Charter’) and Article 16(1) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union (TFEU) provide that everyone has the right to the protection of personal data concerning him or her.

(42) Where processing is based on the data subject's consent, the controller should be able to demonstrate that the data subject has given consent to the processing operation. In particular in the context of a written declaration on another matter, safeguards should ensure that the data subject is aware of the fact that and the extent to which consent is given. In accordance with Council Directive 93/13/EEC (10) a declaration of consent pre-formulated by the controller should be provided in an intelligible and easily accessible form, using clear and plain language and it should not contain unfair terms. For consent to be informed, the data subject should be aware at least of the identity of the controller and the purposes of the processing for which the personal data are intended. Consent should not be regarded as freely given if the data subject has no genuine or free choice or is unable to refuse or withdraw consent without detriment.

And ther eis an other fun EU Law that Plays into that matter:
https://gdpr-info.eu/issues/right-to-be-forgotten/
There are some points more that could be used for a law sue against the page but it is weekend and I am to lazy to pull them all out. The Problem is right now that these laws are still a bit of a wild west so a case like that could win or not.

[Nedkel]

Actually I know quite a bit about that beast of a law and the danger with it. Technically the problem is that a third company collects data from me that does have Information that allow to get a profile about me without my agreement and I hardly consider the DPS Website with my Data as kind of system relevant since people clearly can use that Data to figure out who I am.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...6R0679&from=EN

<snip>

You are wrong here, in the link you have given there is a section which describe the data that is supposed to be protected under this law.
Its a kind of data that could allow to identify the "natural person", not their online identity in your game, in which noone could identity you in real life.

The principles of data protection should apply to any information concerning an identified or identifiable natural person. Personal data which have undergone pseudonymisation, which could be attributed to a natural person by the use of additional information should be considered to be information on an identifiable natural person. To determine whether a natural person is identifiable, account should be taken of all the means reasonably likely to be used, such as singling out, either by the controller or by another person to identify the natural person directly or indirectly. To ascertain whether means are reasonably likely to be used to identify the natural person, account should be taken of all objective factors, such as the costs of and the amount of time required for identification, taking into consideration the available technology at the time of the processing and technological developments. The principles of data protection should therefore not apply to anonymous information, namely information which does not relate to an identified or identifiable natural person or to personal data rendered anonymous in such a manner that the data subject is not or no longer identifiable. This Regulation does not therefore concern the processing of such anonymous information, including for statistical or research purposes.

You cant identity someone from the nick in game, therefore any data that is public about your character cannot be protected under this law.

Also "natural person" >may< be associated with online ID provided by application, however there is no way a regular person will be able to get your email, your ID on your SE account without hacking into the server or your name or adress unless you give it to the public, it is a parapgraph lower from the one i quoted.

[Tharia]

You cant identity someone from the nick in game, therefore any data that is public about your character cannot be protected under this law.

In theory yes, but that law already considers the IP as personal data. The Problem is the whole thing is still a mess and needs one or two more law cases. And A Guild Member from me might know me in real live so with my player name he can access the information how good or bad I play in the game. So with just my ingame name a friend can now know how good or bad I play in the game. Or for example an Ex-wife or Ex-boyfriend could do the same thing just by knowing your in game name. Or a coworker that than tells my boss that X did not work and played instead the last three days the new raid in ff14. Not to mention that you are not even easily allowed to collect data from underaged persons. That aside nobody forbids you to use in Final Fantasy 14 your real name. It is uncommon to do that and stupid, but someone could do that. That aside do not misunderstand me here, a judge could call that this is all totally fine, but as far I am aware right now there was not a case like that so far.

[HyoMinPark]

In theory yes, but that law already considers the IP as personal data. The Problem is the whole thing is still a mess and needs one or two more law cases. And A Guild Member from me might know me in real live so with my player name he can access the information how good or bad I play in the game. So with just my ingame name a friend can now know how good or bad I play in the game. Or for example an Ex-wife or Ex-boyfriend could do the same thing just by knowing your in game name. Or a coworker that than tells my boss that X did not work and played instead the last three days the new raid in ff14. Not to mention that you are not even easily allowed to collect data from underaged persons. That aside nobody forbids you to use in Final Fantasy 14 your real name. It is uncommon to do that and stupid, but someone could do that. That aside do not misunderstand me here, a judge could call that this is all totally fine, but as far I am aware right now there was not a case like that so far.

Uh... I think you are stretching. A lot. You’re about to touch the stars with this.

[Nedkel]

In theory yes, but that law already considers the IP as personal data. The Problem is the whole thing is still a mess and needs one or two more law cases. And A Guild Member from me might know me in real live so with my player name he can access the information how good or bad I play in the game. So with just my ingame name a friend can now know how good or bad I play in the game. Or for example an Ex-wife or Ex-boyfriend could do the same thing just by knowing your in game name. Or a coworker that than tells my boss that X did not work and played instead the last three days the new raid in ff14. Not to mention that you are not even easily allowed to collect data from underaged persons. That aside nobody forbids you to use in Final Fantasy 14 your real name. It is uncommon to do that and stupid, but someone could do that. That aside do not misunderstand me here, a judge could call that this is all totally fine, but as far I am aware right now there was not a case like that so far.

And the fflogs doesnt show to anyone your IP adress.
It may be the concern if they are protecting it enough on their side, however you cant get a data from someone on your dungeon you did yesterday and identify his real life person through collected by fflogs data, there is not a chance of it, besides your IP adress there is nothing to protect here.
A member of your guild may know you, but the law does not apply to the individuals but to the companies that holds your personal data.
If that would be the case, then we all would have to be anonymous without nicknames, because X person could know our IRL identity and tell everyone around about us.

[Tharia]

And the fflogs doesnt show to anyone your IP adress.
It may be the concern if they are protecting it enough on their side, however you cant get a data from someone on your dungeon you did yesterday and identify his real life person through collected by fflogs data, there is not a chance of it, besides your IP adress there is nothing to protect here.

Actually your username already is a help for someone. That is where the whole law thing may catch. And as said before there are not much example cases but someone could use these and the IP here was just an example. For example where did I allow FFlogs to colelct information from me includeinga timnestamp they must get at least that I was at that time in Dungeon X? It is a time Information about may they are not allowed to have without my agreement.

So that we are on the same page here:
https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-to...rsonal-data_en

And:
https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-to...nsent-valid_en

The main point and the one that is the most vague is this paragraph:
Personal data is any information that relates to an identified or identifiable living individual. Different pieces of information, which collected together can lead to the identification of a particular person, also constitute personal data.

Personal data that has been de-identified, encrypted or pseudonymised but can be used to re-identify a person remains personal data and falls within the scope of the law.