Provoke/Ultimatum is NOT a part of your rotation!!!!

[Kabooa]

I've only ran into a tank like this maybe once a year.

It doesn't really warrant a thread. Seems like someone just needed to vent and couldn't do it with nachos.

[Makeda]

I'm not talking about swaps. I'm talking about an off-tank Provoking and then immediately Shirking the main tank to give the MT free enmity. That's not a swap.

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OK and that STILL DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE what the OP was referring to / complaining about...

I don't know where this idea has started or why it's so spread, but for the past few patches, I've noticed an increasing amount of tanks and cotanks using Provoke/Ultimatum as a regular part of their rotation

Which is not only very different from the 'swap' I presumed you were referring to, but ALSO very different from 'using to manage enmity when paired with shirk' that you were referring to.

I stand by my comment - I am surprised you've never met one of them, but these tanks that just spam the provoke button on cooldown exist... especially in low level content, but I've even seen one in a WoW raid... It's just a thing that pops up in MMOs... like the folks that show up for content in only half the iLevel normal for the place, or who haven't put half the skills on their bar, or never did the Job quest. None of it's common, but it happens and sticks in memory.

[HyoMinPark]

OK and that STILL DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE what the OP was referring to / complaining about...

He does refer to “tanks and cotanks”:

but for the past few patches, I've noticed an increasing amount of tanks and cotanks using Provoke/Ultimatum as a regular part of their rotation. . . .

So, it’s possible that he is referencing some 8-man content scenarios here. And, in 8-man content, (good) tanks and their (good) co-tanks regularly Provoke/Ultimatum and then Shirk to give the MT free aggro provided that there are not any upcoming swaps.

I was also challenging the last part of OP’s post: Provoke/Ultimatum + Shirk are not just sat on for adds and/or swaps, especially in endgame content such as Ex, Savage, and Ultimate. There’s a myriad of uses for them beyond just those. There are some instances in 8-man content where the co-tank uses Provoke simply to be second on the aggro list, like in Final Omega for his blue-marker laser beam thing (can’t remember what the name of the attack is called, but I believe OTs Provoke there just to try and end up second on hate there so it won’t target a DPS—which has happened to me before).

[Jukebox12]

when I am on pld and I am not tanking the boss I will always use provoke shirk in my opener it's a huge boost of eminty

[Jonnycbad]

I pull with Provoke in dungeons and normal raids only because its much farther distance than Shield Lob, and good way to get on the hate list as soon as the countdown hits 0

[Rongway]

I pull with Provoke in dungeons and normal raids only because its much farther distance than Shield Lob, and good way to get on the hate list as soon as the countdown hits 0

My first spell is landing at 0 though, so the tank needs to do something that actually generates enmity.

[Nethereal]

My first spell is landing at 0 though, so the tank needs to do something that actually generates enmity.

Generally people who pull with ultimatum and provoke know that they need to follow it up with something that actually generates aggro.

I use provoke to pull more packs in light dungeons so I can continue with the ones I'm already working on, followed up by my group aoe skill of choice depending on the class.

Ultimatum is more used for grabbing aggro when you're on GCD. If my one of my party members grabs a pack I can instantly stop the entire pack from hitting my party member a single time and then grab aggro with an aoe skill. If I just waited for an aoe skill they would've gotten hit at least one time which can be the difference between death and living. You can think of ultimatum as an interrupt essentially.

[colorfulcheshire]

My main intent was talking about tanks in light party dungeons or main tanks when not referring to tanks swaps. ie I see a lot of tanks who already have top aggro spamming provoke and ultimatum on CD and it drives me bonkers bc it's useless and may even be detrimental if a necessary tank swap is involved or if in a situation where the off tank can't (or won't) pick up after mt dies.

No, I love provoke and ultimatum and tanks who use them in tandem with shirk for that juicy juicy aggro gain for their mt, but if you already have too aggro, using provoke and ultimatum yourself is useless and bad practice

Edit: also, sorry for the confusion with complaint about cotank using it. I absolutely love voke/shirk. No, I legit mean tanks with either no intent of tanking or who are maybe just rude who off tank BEHIND the boss and include voke/Ultimatum in their damage rotation to the point that I just shirk them and let them have it bc I'm so fed up. I realize now that was poor wording bc niche situation but I've had it in a few trials and alliances and it makes me want to drink

[Gemina]

Pretty sure OP is talking about tanks using provoke/ultimatum in dungeons on trash and bosses after already establishing enmity. I see it all the time. The tank mains in my FC mates have griped about it as well when they play a different role. There's just a lot of players who don't understand how these two abilities work.

Some of it might come from FFXI, as provoke was a enmity generating skill from that game. But it doesn't matter, players need to read their tooltips.

I don't tank high-end duties so I had no idea OTs were provoking+shirking to give hate to the MT. Maybe tank stance does need to go away if players are doing things like that. There's no point in having a tanking gimmick that allows them to increase defense/offense if we're just going to continue to find ways around not having to be in tank stance.

Edit: didn't see your last post colorfulcheshire. Sorry about that!

[Rocond]

I have accidentally hit provoke via miss click while tanking before. I'm a terrible player. I'm sorry it enrages you.