Provoke/Ultimatum is NOT a part of your rotation!!!!

[HyoMinPark]

Two people above me responded with a note about tank swaps... a note that was already in the OP...

I'm not talking about swaps. I'm talking about an off-tank Provoking and then immediately Shirking the main tank to give the MT free enmity. That's not a swap.

I believe that is fairly common in 8-man content so that the MT doesn't have to do things like aggro combos or going into tank stance to keep the DPS from ripping aggro. I know my static's tanks have specific points in fights where the OT Provokes > immediately Shirks the MT purely so that our MT doesn't have to go into Defiance.

Thereby, it is part of a tank's rotation when there are not any upcoming swaps that would need an OT Provoke and an MT Shirk to the OT.

yes Provoke+ shirk is used to get a boost of aggro for MT
but its not apart of a rotation its be like saying Esuna or raise is apart of a healers rotation

heres a example of a rotation

Not quite the same. Provoke+Shirk is free enmity generation for the MT, and it should be used by tanks in higher end content. The timings vary depending on a fight and what the tanks are doing, but I wouldn't call it a situational ability like a healer having to Raise/Esuna - in an ideal situation, there is no Raise in a fight, and Esuna is useless in high-end content anyways because debuffs/DoTs are rarely cleansable.

OP said it should be saved purely for swaps or picking up adds, but that's not true in high-end content. Tanks don't normally sit on it waiting for a swap or for an add to appear (or they shouldn't anyways); if there's enough time between an upcoming swap, they use it to give their co-tank free enmity so that the co-tank doesn't have to go into stance or do an aggro combo.

I believe tanks in raiding situations have "Provoke+Shirk rotations" just like they "cooldown rotations" - the timings vary but it's still used. It's not just sat on. You're thinking "rotation" as in "1-2-3 rotation" or opener sequences, but I'm not talking about just that - I'm talking about the overall rotation for an entire fight.

[Duskane]

I'm not talking about swaps. I'm talking about an off-tank Provoking and then immediately Shirking the main tank to give the MT free enmity. That's not a swap.

I believe that is fairly common in 8-man content so that the MT doesn't have to do things like aggro combos or going into tank stance to keep the DPS from ripping aggro. I know my static's tanks have specific points in fights where the OT Provokes > immediately Shirks the MT purely so that our MT doesn't have to go into Defiance.

Thereby, it is part of a tank's rotation when there are not any upcoming swaps that would need an OT Provoke and an MT Shirk to the OT.

yes Provoke+ shirk is used to get a boost of aggro for MT
but its not apart of a rotation its be like saying Esuna or raise is apart of a healers rotation

heres a example of a rotation

[Kalise]

yes Provoke+ shirk is used to get a boost of aggro for MT
but its not apart of a rotation its be like saying Esuna or raise is apart of a healers rotation

heres a example of a rotation

If you use it on CD when it's not necessary to delay it due to mechanics, it's part of the rotation.

Much like how Inner Release is a part of the rotations you posted, while again, it can occasionally be delayed due to mechanics (You don't want to pop IR at a time when you aren't free to Fell Cheese all over the boss for its duration)

Comparing it to Esuna or Raise isn't accurate, since Esuna and Raise are direct responses to mechanics or situations. Meanwhile, Circle-Shirking is just something that is done to improve the buffer of enmity between the MT and DPS outside of times where it is saved to respond to a mechanic (Which would just be a Tank swap that would need the OT to taunt, but even then, there exists 2 taunt skills. Provoke and Ultimatum which means that so long as the OT is in range to Ultimatum, there's literally no reason not to just Circle-Shirk on CD)

[Makeda]

I'm not talking about swaps. I'm talking about an off-tank Provoking and then immediately Shirking the main tank to give the MT free enmity. That's not a swap.

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OK and that STILL DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE what the OP was referring to / complaining about...

I don't know where this idea has started or why it's so spread, but for the past few patches, I've noticed an increasing amount of tanks and cotanks using Provoke/Ultimatum as a regular part of their rotation

Which is not only very different from the 'swap' I presumed you were referring to, but ALSO very different from 'using to manage enmity when paired with shirk' that you were referring to.

I stand by my comment - I am surprised you've never met one of them, but these tanks that just spam the provoke button on cooldown exist... especially in low level content, but I've even seen one in a WoW raid... It's just a thing that pops up in MMOs... like the folks that show up for content in only half the iLevel normal for the place, or who haven't put half the skills on their bar, or never did the Job quest. None of it's common, but it happens and sticks in memory.

[HyoMinPark]

OK and that STILL DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE what the OP was referring to / complaining about...

He does refer to “tanks and cotanks”:

but for the past few patches, I've noticed an increasing amount of tanks and cotanks using Provoke/Ultimatum as a regular part of their rotation. . . .

So, it’s possible that he is referencing some 8-man content scenarios here. And, in 8-man content, (good) tanks and their (good) co-tanks regularly Provoke/Ultimatum and then Shirk to give the MT free aggro provided that there are not any upcoming swaps.

I was also challenging the last part of OP’s post: Provoke/Ultimatum + Shirk are not just sat on for adds and/or swaps, especially in endgame content such as Ex, Savage, and Ultimate. There’s a myriad of uses for them beyond just those. There are some instances in 8-man content where the co-tank uses Provoke simply to be second on the aggro list, like in Final Omega for his blue-marker laser beam thing (can’t remember what the name of the attack is called, but I believe OTs Provoke there just to try and end up second on hate there so it won’t target a DPS—which has happened to me before).