Provoke/Ultimatum is NOT a part of your rotation!!!!

[TouchandFeel]

Hyomin hit the nail on the head with pointing out that it is pretty standard among experienced tanks to use Provoke+Shirk or Ultimatum+Shirk as the co-tank in 8-man content to create an easy enmity boosting cycle that allows the MT to avoid relying on their own enmity building tools which often divert from other important aspects such as maximizing dps.

Just one note on that though, when doing provoke+shirk try to position yourself with the MT so you don't accidentally get caught in an unlucky situation where you turn the boss for a split-second and the boss decides that is the perfect time to do a cone AoE or swipe attack.

Oh and don't try to Provoke+Shirk in 24-man content, Shirk only works on party members which the other alliance's tanks are not.

Lastly if you do find yourself in the unfortunate situation of having just used Provoke+Shirk and something happens like the MT goes down, remember you also have Ultimatum at your disposal. Just make sure that you position yourself right on top of the boss/enemies before using it since it is a PBAoE with a range of 5y (the same as Flash and Unleash).
Honestly though, if you just Provoke+Shirked the boss and MT, you should be 2nd on the enmity list with a good margin and will be all set to take over as MT.

[Rongway]

I run an absurd amount of roulettes daily, and 80% of the tanks I end up with in light party content use Provoke and Ultimatum as a pull or just after it. So whether or not the OP intended for this to apply also to light party duties, it's a thing in light party duties. And a lot of the time, the people wasting Provoke/Ultimatum on pull are the same ones who lose aggro to Scatter spam, but still won't listen to explanations of basic enmity generation.

[Kabooa]

I've only ran into a tank like this maybe once a year.

It doesn't really warrant a thread. Seems like someone just needed to vent and couldn't do it with nachos.

[Jukebox12]

when I am on pld and I am not tanking the boss I will always use provoke shirk in my opener it's a huge boost of eminty

[Jonnycbad]

I pull with Provoke in dungeons and normal raids only because its much farther distance than Shield Lob, and good way to get on the hate list as soon as the countdown hits 0

[Rongway]

I pull with Provoke in dungeons and normal raids only because its much farther distance than Shield Lob, and good way to get on the hate list as soon as the countdown hits 0

My first spell is landing at 0 though, so the tank needs to do something that actually generates enmity.

[Nethereal]

My first spell is landing at 0 though, so the tank needs to do something that actually generates enmity.

Generally people who pull with ultimatum and provoke know that they need to follow it up with something that actually generates aggro.

I use provoke to pull more packs in light dungeons so I can continue with the ones I'm already working on, followed up by my group aoe skill of choice depending on the class.

Ultimatum is more used for grabbing aggro when you're on GCD. If my one of my party members grabs a pack I can instantly stop the entire pack from hitting my party member a single time and then grab aggro with an aoe skill. If I just waited for an aoe skill they would've gotten hit at least one time which can be the difference between death and living. You can think of ultimatum as an interrupt essentially.

[colorfulcheshire]

My main intent was talking about tanks in light party dungeons or main tanks when not referring to tanks swaps. ie I see a lot of tanks who already have top aggro spamming provoke and ultimatum on CD and it drives me bonkers bc it's useless and may even be detrimental if a necessary tank swap is involved or if in a situation where the off tank can't (or won't) pick up after mt dies.

No, I love provoke and ultimatum and tanks who use them in tandem with shirk for that juicy juicy aggro gain for their mt, but if you already have too aggro, using provoke and ultimatum yourself is useless and bad practice

Edit: also, sorry for the confusion with complaint about cotank using it. I absolutely love voke/shirk. No, I legit mean tanks with either no intent of tanking or who are maybe just rude who off tank BEHIND the boss and include voke/Ultimatum in their damage rotation to the point that I just shirk them and let them have it bc I'm so fed up. I realize now that was poor wording bc niche situation but I've had it in a few trials and alliances and it makes me want to drink

[Gemina]

Pretty sure OP is talking about tanks using provoke/ultimatum in dungeons on trash and bosses after already establishing enmity. I see it all the time. The tank mains in my FC mates have griped about it as well when they play a different role. There's just a lot of players who don't understand how these two abilities work.

Some of it might come from FFXI, as provoke was a enmity generating skill from that game. But it doesn't matter, players need to read their tooltips.

I don't tank high-end duties so I had no idea OTs were provoking+shirking to give hate to the MT. Maybe tank stance does need to go away if players are doing things like that. There's no point in having a tanking gimmick that allows them to increase defense/offense if we're just going to continue to find ways around not having to be in tank stance.

Edit: didn't see your last post colorfulcheshire. Sorry about that!

[Rocond]

I have accidentally hit provoke via miss click while tanking before. I'm a terrible player. I'm sorry it enrages you.