Combo Action Button

[Sigma-Astra]

Any new skills that get added until now and XIV shutdown.

Any movement required besides up and down is jumping around regardless of how smart you place skills.
Economy of motion.
If your finger has to travel 1 inch to the right, that is slower than staying still, 2 inches slower, 3 inches slower.

Why is WASD the defacto standard and not WLFV?
Economy of motion.
A standard keyboard could have 40 numbers keys from left to right.
Why are there only 10 number keys and a plus minus?
Economy of motion.
Why do single keyboard keys have multiple functions versus one each?
Economy of motion.

A forward thinking developer sees things ahead of time and plans accordingly rather than just waiting until something breaks and then tries to rush and get it fixed. Just because bloat is no issue now for some, does not mean it never will.

....Why are we using economy of motion as an excuse for people who just can't map out their hotbars on certain classes properly...and I say certain classes because not all classes suffer like PLD, DRG, and NIN do.

The principles of motion economy are a set of rules and suggestions to improve the manual work in manufacturing and reduce fatigue and unnecessary movements by the worker, which can lead to the reduction of work related trauma. Last I checked, XIV isn't a manufacturing job and if you find playing the game that tedious and fatigue inducing on your fingers and body while you're sitting your butt in a comfy chair, then perhaps you should stop playing the game for long periods of time without taking breaks.

This is a lot of fluffy words that don't go anywhere because economy of motion has nothing to do with someone sitting at home, on their butt, and playing a video game. That is the complete opposite of maximizing a worker's movement and motion performance at their labor intensive job so they can work better, faster, and longer while avoiding fatigue quicker. Economy of motion is more relevant towards martial artists, guitar players, etc....things that actually require you to adjust your body movements accordingly, and playing an MMO is not one of them.

If you're treating XIV like a job or chore, instead of a hobby....then, I think you have other problems with the game entirely than just them not implementing PvP consolidation into PvE.

[Deceptus]

....Why are we using economy of motion as an excuse for people who just can't map out their hotbars on certain classes properly...and I say certain classes because not all classes suffer like PLD, DRG, and NIN do.

People with disabilities or limited finger motion exist?

Microsoft figured this out and made a special controller for them.

FFXIV has the system in place in PvP to do it, they just don't want to pull the trigger.

[Sigma-Astra]

People with disabilities or limited finger motion exist?

Microsoft figured this out and made a special controller for them.

FFXIV has the system in place in PvP to do it, they just don't want to pull the trigger.

Yes, and there are still probably special controllers that people with disabilities and limited hand motion can use to reduce that with XIV as well, I know not everyone uses the standard Sony controllers to play. It might even be better to petition SE/Sony to develop a special controller with those people in mind. That being said, that doesn't mean we need to enforce an idea that not everyone wants or needs. I mean, let the people with disabilities speak for themselves if this was an issue, they don't need you to speak for them.

My fiance is disabled as well and I've never heard of him complaining about his hotbars management, controller, or keyboard beforehand. The only complaint I get is that he won't touch BRD because it's a lot of procs to watch out for and manage that could potentially kill your DPS, he's just never had good things to say about BRD. Sorry BRD mains!

They even specified why PvP works so well in the way that it does in a past interview. It's because PvP isn't quite as demanding or engaging as PvE is and therefore doesn't require the player to use their entire toolkit or maximize their own rotations. Everyone is on a leveled playing ground in terms of skill within PvP, the same cannot be said for the PvE environment where the skill gaps between the different grouping of players is larger.

[Daniolaut]

I disagree that ability bloat even exists.

I use gamepad and have plenty plenty of space. We are allowed up to 8 hot bars and I dont even really use half of that.... and have tons of empty spaces. (excluding the 4 hot bars I dont even use.)

If they reduce the number of actions again, I fear they gut the jobs even worse at lower levels, and people complain about low level content and high level content....

Can someone tell me which content they prefer? If low level is "horribly boring" and high level content is "too confusing with ability bloat" what is the magical number. at level 50 we have 26 abilities with role actions, and you dont even use all of them. I dont know anyone who prefers level 50 content really. Surely you dont want to have the game play like it was in A Realm Reborn? I even saw people say stuff like 10 abtilites or so. Thats like level 30..... You guys want the devs to sync the game down to level 30 content?

[Lastelli]

I disagree that ability bloat even exists.

I use gamepad and have plenty plenty of space.

Agreed. I'm amazed this thread is still going on to be honest. People just need to be smart when they set their skills. Button bloat is a non-issue in this game, even if you're using a gamepad.

And please let's avoid using physical handicap as a reason to dumb down the combat system. That's ridiculous. What's next? Have the game play itself because there are people with no hands (literally) that would like to enjoy the story? Please.

[Sandpark]

....Why are we using economy of motion as an excuse for people who just can't map out their hotbars on certain classes properly...and I say certain classes because not all classes suffer like PLD, DRG, and NIN do.

The principles of motion economy are a set of rules and suggestions to improve the manual work in manufacturing and reduce fatigue and unnecessary movements by the worker, which can lead to the reduction of work related trauma. Last I checked, XIV isn't a manufacturing job and if you find playing the game that tedious and fatigue inducing on your fingers and body while you're sitting your butt in a comfy chair, then perhaps you should stop playing the game for long periods of time without taking breaks.

This is a lot of fluffy words that don't go anywhere because economy of motion has nothing to do with someone sitting at home, on their butt, and playing a video game. That is the complete opposite of maximizing a worker's movement and motion performance at their labor intensive job so they can work better, faster, and longer while avoiding fatigue quicker. Economy of motion is more relevant towards martial artists, guitar players, etc....things that actually require you to adjust your body movements accordingly, and playing an MMO is not one of them.

If you're treating XIV like a job or chore, instead of a hobby....then, I think you have other problems with the game entirely than just them not implementing PvP consolidation into PvE.

Wrong ECM applies to music and other things as well. Virtuoso musicians use it play really fast and efficiently moving across fret boards. You are treating it like a job because people can't have nice things due to some wanting things to be more arduous than they need to be.

A finger, wrist, and hand is a part of the body unless you are an alien last time I checked. People who treat it like a job are the types that go on about how easy the game is and people need to get good because their DPS is not machine like. Hobby, job, life goal, who cares what it is classified as? If something can make something more enjoyable for someone else, why do you deny them that or argue against it?

All things are a hobby outside your profession for real life money. If gaming is just a hobby for you, why do you care if they add consolidation or not? If gaming is just a hobby for you, why are you pushing against a quality of life option for other players?

/shaking my head

[Sandpark]

I think there's a little more than just 'econony of motion' when it cones to not implementing these insane ideas.

Why aren't keyboards 50 feet long and made of cheese?
Don't tell me it's econony of motion.

No, that one is because I would eat my keyboard.

[Shurrikhan]

FFXIV has the system in place in PvP to do it, they just don't want to pull the trigger.

That system is not in place for PvE. The code is, but the skills are not. Only a few jobs are readily adaptable to its use.

What would work, on the other hand, is just removing the intentionally broken code on macros, allowing players to make their own versions of these series. Or, create a better macro-creator altogether to support such QoL functions.

Even then I'd probably use them only on DRG, as I like having access to BB, RoH, and PS on their own for gathering for pulls, Perfect Balance wrecks this for Monk unless I sacrifice Shift- and Alt- variants of my 1-3 weaponskill keys and XIV allows mod-keying inside macros themselves, and there are times I'd want to hold RA or use CB before SB, etc. That kind of system just isn't well fit to what we have now. A system like that works best with a geometric series, with the same number of options in each GCD. Instead we get 1 choice, 1-2 choices, 2-3 choices.

Consolidation can eventually work and work well, but to be applied universally or systematically it would require a complete rework of our combo lines and the whole idea of what makes a combo. And that's not on the table right now.

[Sigma-Astra]

Wrong ECM applies to music and other things as well. Virtuoso musicians use it play really fast and efficiently moving across fret boards. You are treating it like a job because people can't have nice things due to some wanting things to be more arduous than they need to be.

....Did you not read the part I mentioned guitar players? No, I am treating this like a video game, just that, and seeing people wanting something they see in PvP where it places anyone who does that piece of content on a leveled playing field and wanting that in PvE where it's not even close towards the same environment.

A finger, wrist, and hand is a part of the body unless you are an alien last time I checked. People who treat it like a job are the types that go on about how easy the game is and people need to get good because their DPS is not machine like. Hobby, job, life goal, who cares what it is classified as? If something can make something more enjoyable for someone else, why do you deny them that or argue against it?

All things are a hobby outside your profession for real life money. If gaming is just a hobby for you, why do you care if they add consolidation or not? If gaming is just a hobby for you, why are you pushing against a quality of life option for other players?

/shaking my head

This game does not require you to move your hands, fingers, or wrists in consistent rapid movements that would rack your whole body with fatigue. It's all muscle memory and repetition. At best, we could argue that keeping your hands in one position for too long or gripping the controller intensively could give you carpal tunnel. The amount of effort you're trying to stretch this game as following the economy of motion principles is astounding and baffling. You're not going to be pressing your keys (if you're on keyboard) or buttons (if you're on controller) any faster than the GCD will let you for one, and two, you're not going through your rotations at the speed of which a pianist would be using to play Flight of the Bumblebees or Voyage 1969.

You zero in on the word "motion" and think it applies towards every little thing, it really doesn't. However, if we were debating about DDR, then we could say it actually does apply towards it. But, since this is XIV....and quite possibly one of the most relaxed and casual MMO's out there to be playing, it doesn't even come close. The game isn't even as hard as you're trying to make it out to be. You don't even have to treat the game like a job to do good DPS. You just have to try and pay attention. All you have to do....is care enough and want to improve. That's not difficult, though you'll find some questionable people in this community that would make you think otherwise.

Next thing you'll tell me that WoW uses it too or Guild Wars. Furthermore, my self and quite a few others wouldn't mind if it was an optional system to use, but knowing SE it won't be. So, why should the ones who don't want it be forced to use it because people put useless things on their bars sometimes? Honestly, the DPS that decides to ignore their positionals or follow their rotation out of order, the tanks who strictly only want to stay within DPS stance and let mobs go all over the place, the healers who can't heal nor DPS....those people don't deserve a consolidation option as an excuse to not even try to improve. A consolidation option won't save those people nor do they deserve the pleasure of even having one.

[Thamorian]

I disagree that ability bloat even exists.

I use gamepad and have plenty plenty of space. We are allowed up to 8 hot bars and I dont even really use half of that.... and have tons of empty spaces. (excluding the 4 hot bars I dont even use.)

If they reduce the number of actions again, I fear they gut the jobs even worse at lower levels, and people complain about low level content and high level content....

Can someone tell me which content they prefer? If low level is "horribly boring" and high level content is "too confusing with ability bloat" what is the magical number. at level 50 we have 26 abilities with role actions, and you dont even use all of them. I dont know anyone who prefers level 50 content really. Surely you dont want to have the game play like it was in A Realm Reborn? I even saw people say stuff like 10 abtilites or so. Thats like level 30..... You guys want the devs to sync the game down to level 30 content?

Not all of us want to use more than 3 hotbars during combat that we quick access with L2/R2, L2+R2/R2+L2 and R2+R2/L2+L2 and some jobs do fill 3 hard bars up a bit much. Some of us do not want to suffer through the awkwardness of scrolling through crossbars with R1 or R1+Directional/Face button.