Dev Team, you screwed up.

[Kalise]

This game (currently) doesn't have support classes. So a BLU can't be one. If it was it would become either mandatory in a grp or useless and ignored.

What is BRD if not a support class?

[TheHeavenAbyss]

Again it's nothing to do with the use of the spell - if a RDM is Vercuring and not DPSing then something has gone wrong in the grp.
You don't bring RDM to heal people. You being them for quick reses in progression and then ignore them in speed kills.

This game (currently) doesn't have support classes. So a BLU can't be one. If it was it would become either mandatory in a grp or useless and ignored.

Okay, then all it takes for a BLU to not be a RDM clone is to not have a raising spell (it could still have with Angel's Whisper anyway). You bring RDM for quick reses, but you can't do it with BLU. The classes have now different utilities to the party.

Also, the game doesn't have a strict support class, but that doesn't mean that classes can't support each other. That's one of the ways that DPSs can set themselves apart from one another.

[Ilyrian]

What is BRD if not a support class?

Bard would be a support class if its DPS was reduced by say 40% and was brought as a support class not as a DPS.

[Ilyrian]

Okay, then all it takes for a BLU to not be a RDM clone is to not have a raising spell (it could still have with Angel's Whisper anyway). You bring RDM for quick reses, but you can't do it with BLU. The classes have now different utilities to the party.

Also, the game doesn't have a strict support class, but that doesn't mean that classes can't support each other. That's one of the ways that DPSs can set themselves apart from one another.

Absolutely - but then you run into the problems of what becomes mandatory and what becomes useless.

Look at the schism between the three healers. Unless WHM is given some very significant damage buffs there is little to no reason to bring them over an AST or a SCH.
There is currently no reason to bring a MCH over a BRD.
Having a BLM/SAM who under-performs is a waste of a DPS slot.

Yes, this only effects the people who want to play the game on a more serious level - and of course everything is viable in all content with the right player - but why would SE add to these issues by making BLU anything but just another DPS mage. Like they did with RDM.

Anyway - I'm not trying to convince you that you don't want to run with your BLUs in DF content - that's all cool with me.
I'm just pointing out that there are glaring issues with it and you will only get a watered down version of it to keep the already badly managed class balance status quo.

[Kalise]

Bard would be a support class if its DPS was reduced by say 40% and was brought as a support class not as a DPS.

So support classes can't deal damage?

Also, last I checked, BRD's were brought because of their support skills rather than their DPS (Since, they're not the highest DPS class, even with DRG providing a boost to their damage)

[Ilyrian]

So support classes can't deal damage?

Also, last I checked, BRD's were brought because of their support skills rather than their DPS (Since, they're not the highest DPS class, even with DRG providing a boost to their damage)

Not really going to argue semantics here - if you want BRD to be a support class it can be.

[Kalise]

Not really going to argue semantics here - if you want BRD to be a support class it can be.

I mean, you're the one who brought up "There are no Support classes" and "There can never be a Support class"

When, we literally have had a Support class since ARR, in the form of BRD which has continually been providing significant team boosts and as such as been fairly critical (Heh, puns) within competitive parties even without being the highest DPS (Due to their support increasing overall DPS despite that)

Now, semantics would be arguing that DRG is a Support class, because it gets brought along to boost BRD/MCH damage and that's about it (Battle Litany too, but mostly just the 5% piercing resist down), however, I am not wont to do that because there's a difference between all the utility that BRD brings and just having a couple of skills that help other players.

[Ilyrian]

I mean, you're the one who brought up "There are no Support classes" and "There can never be a Support class"

When, we literally have had a Support class since ARR, in the form of BRD which has continually been providing significant team boosts and as such as been fairly critical (Heh, puns) within competitive parties even without being the highest DPS (Due to their support increasing overall DPS despite that)

Now, semantics would be arguing that DRG is a Support class, because it gets brought along to boost BRD/MCH damage and that's about it (Battle Litany too, but mostly just the 5% piercing resist down), however, I am not wont to do that because there's a difference between all the utility that BRD brings and just having a couple of skills that help other players.

Honestly I don't see them defined as Support Classes in the truest sense but I don't want to argue with you about it.
Where I am is that I don't think BLU will be implemented well enough to satisfy people and I can understand the decision they made. That's all.

I never said there would never be a support class - I said that given the game as it stands there couldn't be. This, of course could change. But given the two examples of RDM and the current implementation of BLU it would suggest there is precedent for them not making a support class - making BLU mage just another mage with a crowed in class bar and different colored spells and perhaps a piercing debuff. Which, in my humble view, is not what everyone clamoring for DF BLU mages actually wants.

[Kalise]

Honestly I don't see them defined as Support Classes in the truest sense but I don't want to argue with you about it.

It all depends on how you define "Support Classes".

If you mean "Completely useless class entirely reliant on buffing other classes" then no, there are no Support Classes in the game. Nor should there ever be.

However, "Support Class" in reality is a fairly broad term. Usually defined by the notion that the class receives interest for bringing to a party not because it performs well at its role, but because it helps others perform better at their role.

Which means that the reason WHM is inferior to SCH/AST is because WHM is pure Healer, while SCH/AST are both Healer/Support because they have boosts to other people's DPS.

Why is BRD unanimously favoured over MCH? It's because MCH is pure DPS while BRD is DPS/Support and MCH doesn't have the raw DPS to outperform other raw DPS classes even if it does outperform BRD.

Where I am is that I don't think BLU will be implemented well enough to satisfy people and I can understand the decision they made. That's all.

Well, your entire argument seems to be hinging on the implementation of RDM. Which has issues merely because it's a DPS/Healer in a game where healing is overtuned that it's a non-factor outside of progression (It also doesn't outperform BLM/SMN in terms of magical DPS classes)

That, and this notion that all classes of a particular sub-role are literally identical. That BLU = RDM = BLM = SMN and there's no differences between them. (By that standard, WHM = SCH = AST, WAR = DRK = PLD, MCH = BRD and SAM = DRG = NIN = MNK and thus there are only actually 5 classes in the entire game)

BLU has plenty of potential viability being a DPS/Support class. Not quite the raw damage machines like BLM/SMN. Not quite the healing output of RDM. But enough tools and utility to which you might want to bring a BLU to your raid/party for some buffs/debuffs.

Much like how BRD is middle of the road in terms of DPS output, but is still useful because they bring a bunch of utility that aids the party/raid as a whole.

Meanwhile, there's little to actually change from the current implementation of BLU, certainly nothing drastic needs doing. Meanwhile, you've stated yourself that you in fact do like the current implementation of BLU. So... It stands to reason that people should like a BLU that has been fleshed out a bit (Which is all that's necessary to turn current BLU into a viable DPS/Support job that can be viable in normal content, just like BRD)

I never said there would never be a support class - I said that given the game as it stands there couldn't be.

No, you literally said:

This game (currently) doesn't have support classes. So a BLU can't be one. If it was it would become either mandatory in a grp or useless and ignored.

Which is implying that there not only is not a support class (There is) but also that it's not possible for there to be one by stating that BLU can't be one (If BLU can't be one, who CAN be one?)

This, of course could change. But given the two examples of RDM and the current implementation of BLU it would suggest there is precedent for them not making a support class

But they have BRD, which is precedent for a support class.

They have current BLU, which has precedent for a support class (Via Peculiar Light, White Wind, Bad Breath) - Even more so if they actually made Mighty Guard and Moon Flute more closely resemble previous games iterations.

making BLU mage just another mage with a crowed in class bar and different colored spells and perhaps a piercing debuff. Which, in my humble view, is not what everyone clamoring for DF BLU mages actually wants.

As has been mentioned, time and time again, BLU could quite easily be distinct from other mages. They have potential to be supportive much like BRD, without "Just having a piercing debuff" (Which is unlikely to happen because then it would mean that people would basically just take whichever class did more DPS between DRG and BLU and ignore the other one completely)

[Dualgunner]

Bard would be a support class if its DPS was reduced by say 40% and was brought as a support class not as a DPS.

If BRD did 40% less damage, it would be doing less damage than tanks and healers. Remember that in this game, everything is a DPS no matter it's color; there's no reason a support class wouldn't be the same. Bard and Ninja are already perfect examples of how XIV treats support; they're lower on the pole among the DPS class, but they still do more than tanks.