Suggestion: healer-based incentives/rewards

[JohnSpawnVFX]

But they're still wrong. Most players need to do more than basic requirements.

When ANYONE does only the bare minimum they're forcing someone else or even the whole group to carry them. How noticeable this is depends on the content.

However this thread is about acknowledging the healers' contribution to group play, and one tank made the false assumption that healing is a role where the bare minimum is not only enough, but is what most healers do.

But hey shoot me for correcting them on only the specific thing they got wrong instead of lecturing them on how group play as a whole works, right? ;D

Huh no. Most healers SHOULD do more than healing and basic mechanics. But they don't NEED to, because most of the basic content simply doesn't require it. It's too damn easy.

So yes, you're wrong. You're hyperbolizing SHOULD with NEED.

[Penthea]

Huh no. Most healers SHOULD do more than healing and basic mechanics. But they don't NEED to, because most of the basic content simply doesn't require it. It's too damn easy.

So yes, you're wrong. You're hyperbolizing SHOULD with NEED.

If you want to go down that route you could say the same about tanking. Or dps. Or anything really.

I have seen plenty of tank stance tanks who did little other than stand around and get hit, seen plenty of dps who did mediocre damage at best and used no role actions, and seen loads of healers have the group at low hp all the time despite their large mana pool. So then if easy content often allows players of any role to do the bare minimum, why should only tanks get access to role-based rewards?

Also are you somehow unaware that people can make content more difficult by doing things such as chain pulling mobs, being undergeared, or simply playing badly? Don't underestimate how much reckless and/or bad players can change how content feels.

[miraidensetsu]

Huh no. Most healers SHOULD do more than healing and basic mechanics. But they don't NEED to, because most of the basic content simply doesn't require it. It's too damn easy.

So yes, you're wrong. You're hyperbolizing SHOULD with NEED.

Nor tanks, much less DPS. On easy content, DPS could even ignore mechanics if the healer is good enough. In those contents, tanks can tank without using any cooldown and an ice mage can do an alrighty damage if he keeps the GCD rolling. They will clear that easy content.

But that doesn't change the fact that an healer that just heals, an tank who don't use cooldowns and an ice mage are the example of players who don't do even the bare minimum. The bare minimum for healers is heals+support+mechanics+DPS. The bare minimum for tanks is manage aggro+cooldowns+positioning+mechanics+DPS. The bare minimum for any DPS is doing their rotation (which means do damage)+mechanics. And if someone does anything less than what I described, people will notice, because that will make that content harder. Specially for the healer. For instance, healing Sastasha (the easiest content) with a tank that is using ilvl 1 equips is... Quite challenging. Specially if he don't know how to use Flash, Shield Lob, Overpower, Tomahawk, Unleash, Unmend or even Rampart. All of those available by level 15. And a dungeon that a SCH could do without casting Physick not even once (just EOS's embraces would do) can be a nightmare.

And I say that as healer main who always heals pugs.

[Gemina]

Nor tanks, much less DPS. On easy content, DPS could even ignore mechanics if the healer is good enough. In those contents, tanks can tank without using any cooldown and an ice mage can do an alrighty damage if he keeps the GCD rolling. They will clear that easy content.

But that doesn't change the fact that an healer that just heals, an tank who don't use cooldowns and an ice mage are the example of players who don't do even the bare minimum. The bare minimum for healers is heals+support+mechanics+DPS.

No it isn't. If you want to talk about simply just clearing content, a healer doesn't have to use one offensive gcd or ogcd. If you want to talk about min/maxing, skipping raid phases, and overall playing optimally then yes it is required. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying it is ok to play this way, and if healers are not using offensive skills they will spend a lot of time just standing around or over-healing. But I do have to be real here. Now granted, I have not participated in any of the SB raids so I could be unaware if the devs have changed designing content that does not factor healer DPS into the clears. But I haven't heard anything from them about it.

[miraidensetsu]

No it isn't. If you want to talk about simply just clearing content, a healer doesn't have to use one offensive gcd or ogcd. If you want to talk about min/maxing, skipping raid phases, and overall playing optimally then yes it is required. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying it is ok to play this way, and if healers are not using offensive skills they will spend a lot of time just standing around or over-healing. But I do have to be real here. Now granted, I have not participated in any of the SB raids so I could be unaware if the devs have changed designing content that does not factor healer DPS into the clears. But I haven't heard anything from them about it.

The game wasn't programmed to consider the healer DPS as an necessary damage to get the clear. Yoshi-P himself said so a long time ago. But the community thinks otherwise, because ABC, because half of the healer's work is doing DPS, because 2 healer's DPS is almost like there are an extra DPS there or they yet remember when WHM had some spot outDPSing actual DPS classes back on ARR times. The fact is that now - by the community standards - the healer's bare basic includes DPSing.

So, if we want to discuss the minimum standards, we have to define first which standards we are speaking. Remember that the community standards are higher than the dev team standards.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

If you want to go down that route you could say the same about tanking. Or dps. Or anything really.

I have seen plenty of tank stance tanks who did little other than stand around and get hit, seen plenty of dps who did mediocre damage at best and used no role actions, and seen loads of healers have the group at low hp all the time despite their large mana pool. So then if easy content often allows players of any role to do the bare minimum, why should only tanks get access to role-based rewards?

Also are you somehow unaware that people can make content more difficult by doing things such as chain pulling mobs, being undergeared, or simply playing badly? Don't underestimate how much reckless and/or bad players can change how content feels.

Nor tanks, much less DPS. On easy content, DPS could even ignore mechanics if the healer is good enough. In those contents, tanks can tank without using any cooldown and an ice mage can do an alrighty damage if he keeps the GCD rolling. They will clear that easy content.

But that doesn't change the fact that an healer that just heals, an tank who don't use cooldowns and an ice mage are the example of players who don't do even the bare minimum. The bare minimum for healers is heals+support+mechanics+DPS. The bare minimum for tanks is manage aggro+cooldowns+positioning+mechanics+DPS. The bare minimum for any DPS is doing their rotation (which means do damage)+mechanics. And if someone does anything less than what I described, people will notice, because that will make that content harder. Specially for the healer. For instance, healing Sastasha (the easiest content) with a tank that is using ilvl 1 equips is... Quite challenging. Specially if he don't know how to use Flash, Shield Lob, Overpower, Tomahawk, Unleash, Unmend or even Rampart. All of those available by level 15. And a dungeon that a SCH could do without casting Physick not even once (just EOS's embraces would do) can be a nightmare.

And I say that as healer main who always heals pugs.

Oh believe me, I'm one of the first ones defending people doing their best. But let's not fool ourselves. You're both just arguing this to prop up the healer role. Funny how you both usually are on the side of people who don't do their best on other threads, but once someone even seems to suggest healers usually aren't theheroes you both seem to think they are, here comes the flip-flopping.

[Penthea]

Oh believe me, I'm one of the first ones defending people doing their best. But let's not fool ourselves. You're both just arguing this to prop up the healer role. Funny how you both usually are on the side of people who don't do their best on other threads, but once someone even seems to suggest healers usually aren't theheroes you both seem to think they are, here comes the flip-flopping.

So it's flip flopping to defend people not doing their best, and then to correct someone when they claim healers usually have an easy role? Uh...I regret to inform you that these two things are not always related. One is defending people who may not be in a favourable situation, the other is correcting someone making a false assumption.

But sure make them the same if it makes you happy.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

So it's flip flopping to defend people not doing their best, and then to correct someone when they claim healers usually have an easy role? Uh...I regret to inform you that these two things are not always related. One is defending people who may not be in a favourable situation, the other is correcting someone making a false assumption.

But sure make them the same if it makes you happy.

But it is, in most basic content, which is what was said.
I know, I heal occasionally, in every roulette. I DPS, I pre-shield any tankbusters, I top up people in preparation for raidwide AoEs. But I don't have to fully use my kit, I've never even touched Rescue. Because most basic content is just that easy.

[Penthea]

But it is, in most basic content, which is what was said.
I know, I heal occasionally, in every roulette. I DPS, I pre-shield any tankbusters, I top up people in preparation for raidwide AoEs. But I don't have to fully use my kit, I've never even touched Rescue. Because most basic content is just that easy.

As if the use of Rescue is an indication of how difficult content is.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

As if the use of Rescue is an indication of how difficult content is.

No, but apparently pretending most basic content is as hard as an Ex Trial or Savage is.

At this point of the game, healers have more than completely spent their martyrdom credits. No one's buying that act. You're essential, but not at the cost of the other roles.