Suggestion: healer-based incentives/rewards

[Gemina]

Nor tanks, much less DPS. On easy content, DPS could even ignore mechanics if the healer is good enough. In those contents, tanks can tank without using any cooldown and an ice mage can do an alrighty damage if he keeps the GCD rolling. They will clear that easy content.

But that doesn't change the fact that an healer that just heals, an tank who don't use cooldowns and an ice mage are the example of players who don't do even the bare minimum. The bare minimum for healers is heals+support+mechanics+DPS.

No it isn't. If you want to talk about simply just clearing content, a healer doesn't have to use one offensive gcd or ogcd. If you want to talk about min/maxing, skipping raid phases, and overall playing optimally then yes it is required. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying it is ok to play this way, and if healers are not using offensive skills they will spend a lot of time just standing around or over-healing. But I do have to be real here. Now granted, I have not participated in any of the SB raids so I could be unaware if the devs have changed designing content that does not factor healer DPS into the clears. But I haven't heard anything from them about it.

[miraidensetsu]

No it isn't. If you want to talk about simply just clearing content, a healer doesn't have to use one offensive gcd or ogcd. If you want to talk about min/maxing, skipping raid phases, and overall playing optimally then yes it is required. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying it is ok to play this way, and if healers are not using offensive skills they will spend a lot of time just standing around or over-healing. But I do have to be real here. Now granted, I have not participated in any of the SB raids so I could be unaware if the devs have changed designing content that does not factor healer DPS into the clears. But I haven't heard anything from them about it.

The game wasn't programmed to consider the healer DPS as an necessary damage to get the clear. Yoshi-P himself said so a long time ago. But the community thinks otherwise, because ABC, because half of the healer's work is doing DPS, because 2 healer's DPS is almost like there are an extra DPS there or they yet remember when WHM had some spot outDPSing actual DPS classes back on ARR times. The fact is that now - by the community standards - the healer's bare basic includes DPSing.

So, if we want to discuss the minimum standards, we have to define first which standards we are speaking. Remember that the community standards are higher than the dev team standards.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

If you want to go down that route you could say the same about tanking. Or dps. Or anything really.

I have seen plenty of tank stance tanks who did little other than stand around and get hit, seen plenty of dps who did mediocre damage at best and used no role actions, and seen loads of healers have the group at low hp all the time despite their large mana pool. So then if easy content often allows players of any role to do the bare minimum, why should only tanks get access to role-based rewards?

Also are you somehow unaware that people can make content more difficult by doing things such as chain pulling mobs, being undergeared, or simply playing badly? Don't underestimate how much reckless and/or bad players can change how content feels.

Nor tanks, much less DPS. On easy content, DPS could even ignore mechanics if the healer is good enough. In those contents, tanks can tank without using any cooldown and an ice mage can do an alrighty damage if he keeps the GCD rolling. They will clear that easy content.

But that doesn't change the fact that an healer that just heals, an tank who don't use cooldowns and an ice mage are the example of players who don't do even the bare minimum. The bare minimum for healers is heals+support+mechanics+DPS. The bare minimum for tanks is manage aggro+cooldowns+positioning+mechanics+DPS. The bare minimum for any DPS is doing their rotation (which means do damage)+mechanics. And if someone does anything less than what I described, people will notice, because that will make that content harder. Specially for the healer. For instance, healing Sastasha (the easiest content) with a tank that is using ilvl 1 equips is... Quite challenging. Specially if he don't know how to use Flash, Shield Lob, Overpower, Tomahawk, Unleash, Unmend or even Rampart. All of those available by level 15. And a dungeon that a SCH could do without casting Physick not even once (just EOS's embraces would do) can be a nightmare.

And I say that as healer main who always heals pugs.

Oh believe me, I'm one of the first ones defending people doing their best. But let's not fool ourselves. You're both just arguing this to prop up the healer role. Funny how you both usually are on the side of people who don't do their best on other threads, but once someone even seems to suggest healers usually aren't theheroes you both seem to think they are, here comes the flip-flopping.

[Penthea]

Oh believe me, I'm one of the first ones defending people doing their best. But let's not fool ourselves. You're both just arguing this to prop up the healer role. Funny how you both usually are on the side of people who don't do their best on other threads, but once someone even seems to suggest healers usually aren't theheroes you both seem to think they are, here comes the flip-flopping.

So it's flip flopping to defend people not doing their best, and then to correct someone when they claim healers usually have an easy role? Uh...I regret to inform you that these two things are not always related. One is defending people who may not be in a favourable situation, the other is correcting someone making a false assumption.

But sure make them the same if it makes you happy.

[miraidensetsu]

Oh believe me, I'm one of the first ones defending people doing their best. But let's not fool ourselves. You're both just arguing this to prop up the healer role. Funny how you both usually are on the side of people who don't do their best on other threads, but once someone even seems to suggest healers usually aren't theheroes you both seem to think they are, here comes the flip-flopping.

While you are saying exactly what I said before and you criticized me for. How ironic...

But, well, I changed my mind a long time ago. And it seems that you've changed yours as well. Or you're against giving some prop to healers because you want to keep that props as a some sort of "Tank Privilege©". And wants to defend that privilege, even that means to say that healing is about standing 10 seconds there doing nothing while the poor tank must save the world to just get the clear.

But there are one thing I reinforced in my mind: I wouldn't like to be in the same party as you. Lucky me we're on different DCs.

[Xtrasweettea]

[…]

The statement of the tank:

Most healers usually just really need to heal and folllow mechanics as necessary just to get most of the basic content done. They can supplement DPS if the party, especially the tank, is geared enough.

He used the words “usually just really.” Which means for “the most part.” Also, he stated a “most of the basic content done” which more-than-likely excludes raids, extremes, and ultimate. The last sentence shows that he understands that if he, a tank, is geared enough, a Healer can do more than just heal… in this case, DPS.

Your response:

That isn't to say tanking isn't challenging. It is. But saying healers "just have to heal and follow mechanics" is so false. We're constantly expected to and have to make up for the shortcomings of others.

From my perspective: You read the statement and only saw the word “just”, which is a whole different meaning than what he stated. You took his statement personally. Instead of waiting a few minutes to cool down and re-read it again, you tried to “correct” him on something he already knows about.

Also, you added to that statement an addendum implies that there is a community forced burden on healers, that they must constantly and always do more and make up for everyone else’s shortcoming. Which seems like an expectation you placed on yourself. *

You’re “correcting” someone who didn’t need to be corrected at all.

*Exceptions to events like raids, extremes, and ultimate.

It appears that when someone says "healers must do X" you automatically read it as "only healers do X".

Don’t project too much now, you’ll burn out your bulb.

[Penthea]

Most healers usually just really need to heal and folllow mechanics as necessary just to get most of the basic content done. They can supplement DPS if the party, especially the tank, is geared enough.

However, tanks have to hold aggro, position the boss, and time defensive cooldowns for some hard hitting attacks. And not to mention the average DF attitude toward tanks at times can be harsh for most players.

How else am I supposed to take this other than to mean "a healer's job is usually very basic"? This player was clearly trying to make the healer role look very simple compared to a tank's job to justify healers having no role based rewards.

From my perspective: You read the statement and only saw the word “just”, which is a whole different meaning than what he stated. You took his statement personally. Instead of waiting a few minutes to cool down and re-read it again, you tried to “correct” him on something he already knows about.

So let me get this straight, I am at fault for taking the meaning of the word "just" in the way it is usually meant? This is your argument?

lol

You're the one who needs to cool off, you're getting all worked up over one word to the point of trying to change its meaning

[Andevom]

I'm not sure where you can find it, but I'm fairly certain it was once said by the devs that each job was going to get a mount, and that they added the unicorn for WHM first to entice players into leveling it.

Given that this was years ago, I wouldn't be surprised if they dropped the idea outright.

[Derio]

Wasnt the last census showing where healers where only 1-2% higher than tanks. So I see no reason they shouldnt get incentives rewards.