Alphinaud

[ObsidianFire]

The point of the difference between Yda's and Lyse's character was the Lyse was essentially pretending to be "someone else" the entire time we knew her. That someone else is "Yda". Once Papalymo dies, Lyse finds out everyone knew she wasn't Yda anyway. So she stops pretending to be "Yda" only to realize that she no longer knows who she is as "Lyse.

Stormblood is Lyse figuring out who "Lyse" is. In fact, 4.0 is framed with Lyse narrating the events to her inner Papalymo. Lyse is telling her best friend how she figured out who she truly is when she's not faking being someone else. It's also good to remember that for all of Stormblood, Lyse is dealing with her best friend's death. No matter who she is, Lyse would always be more subdued because of that. If Lyse didn't change when Papalymo died in some way, I'd think they're relationship wasn't as genuine as it came off. Deaths that don't effect characters are as fake as deaths that aren't permanent.

[Iscah]

The point of the difference between Yda's and Lyse's character was the Lyse was essentially pretending to be "someone else" the entire time we knew her. That someone else is "Yda". Once Papalymo dies, Lyse finds out everyone knew she wasn't Yda anyway. So she stops pretending to be "Yda" only to realize that she no longer knows who she is as "Lyse.

Stormblood is Lyse figuring out who "Lyse" is. In fact, 4.0 is framed with Lyse narrating the events to her inner Papalymo. Lyse is telling her best friend how she figured out who she truly is when she's not faking being someone else. It's also good to remember that for all of Stormblood, Lyse is dealing with her best friend's death. No matter who she is, Lyse would always be more subdued because of that. If Lyse didn't change when Papalymo died in some way, I'd think they're relationship wasn't as genuine as it came off. Deaths that don't effect characters are as fake as deaths that aren't permanent.

I know it's terrible, but I tend to forget that Papalymo died. Perhaps because we never really saw "Yda without Papalymo" to have that absence properly sink in, and then the MSQ was urgently rushing onwards.

It's been a while since my only run through Stormblood, but I think it was only really close to the end that we finally found out that Lyse's narration was supposed to be talking to Papalymo the whole time? Perhaps it would have been better to be clearer from the start, for more of a constant reminder of how much she's thinking of him and missing him.

So you think it is a programming design restriction more than anything else? If that is the case, that is unfortunate.

Prettymuch, yes.

You can see a full list of interactable NPCs in each zone at Garland Tools - the Dravanian field areas are a good example to look at, since the main characters are constantly moving through the area and you talk with them at different locations. What that actually looks like is that, for example, there are over twenty "Alphinaud" NPCs throughout the Dravanian Forelands. Each one has a fixed location and its own set lines of dialogue, and would be set to appear or disappear as you complete certain objectives. Final storytelling result: Alphinaud-the-person is moving from place to place.

I guess it's similar when you approach someone, talk to them and then have to fight them 'on the spot' - you can see the "interactable NPC" vanish and get replaced by a fighting "enemy NPC". Or from memory, "escort FATEs" work similarly - the trigger NPC who stands there waiting for someone to agree to accompany them gets switched out for a mobile "friendly NPC" with a health bar.

I think they could change Urianger's design and explore his story, even with the quest-giver NPC in the Waking Sands. In terms of timeline, it's pretty much accepted that the Binding Coils happened before Alisaie came back in Heavensward. There's also cases like Estinien not recognizing you in the Dragoon Job Quests after you've finished Heavensward's story. So I think that, if Urianger changed in Shadowbringers (or, let's say, even died), he could still appear in the Waking Sands with the quests. Most people would probably assume that this an event that is placed chronologically in ARR (it's a matter of looking at the quest level).

As it stands, right now in the MSQ, Urianger is in a coma... but he still appears in the Waking Sands giving me quests. So the timeline is already broken anyway lol

That's prettymuch what I was thinking.

For someone who had already cleared all the quests that Urianger gives, apparently he was absent from the Waking Sands as soon as the MSQ called for it. But for those of us who still had active quests, he remained present so they could be completed.

If you complete those quests now, he will be absent from the Waking Sands from that point onwards. I saw this happen myself, as I only completed the Binding Coil recently. (Both his quest chains end away from the Sands, so there's no sudden vanishing into thin air, he's just not there the next time you visit.)

So they've already provided that at this point they will make a solid break from having him locked into position for the sake of those quests, and are willing to bend the timeline - not break it as such, just allow a little pocket of 2.X time to continue into the present for as long as it's needed. There can be lots of these strange time pockets about in any case, depending on which "canonically happened" quests you have and haven't completed.

As you mentioned, Estinien in the ARR dragoon questline is a good example of this. Not only does he not recognise you, but he's still the Azure Dragoon and in possession of the (singular!) Eye of Nidhogg. If you're completely beyond Heavensward, everything makes it clear that you've stepped back in time to do this quest - although I imagine it must be a bit confusing if you're partway through Heavensward and Estinien does still look the same in the "present" time as the dragoon quests in the "past". Or if you did them mid-Dragonsong, which would certainly put a different spin on things.

[SannaR]

The point of the difference between Yda's and Lyse's character was the Lyse was essentially pretending to be "someone else" the entire time we knew her. That someone else is "Yda". Once Papalymo dies, Lyse finds out everyone knew she wasn't Yda anyway. So she stops pretending to be "Yda" only to realize that she no longer knows who she is as "Lyse.

Stormblood is Lyse figuring out who "Lyse" is. In fact, 4.0 is framed with Lyse narrating the events to her inner Papalymo. Lyse is telling her best friend how she figured out who she truly is when she's not faking being someone else. It's also good to remember that for all of Stormblood, Lyse is dealing with her best friend's death. No matter who she is, Lyse would always be more subdued because of that. If Lyse didn't change when Papalymo died in some way, I'd think they're relationship wasn't as genuine as it came off. Deaths that don't effect characters are as fake as deaths that aren't permanent.

This and that now she's trying to figure out what's the best way forward for her country while also taking into account he isn't there and she can't run to a certain general any time a tough choice comes a long. You can see it when she's trying to think of a way of having the Qalyana there at that meeting while also keeping a summoning from happening. Then doing some very quick thinking on her part to get Fordola involved once we find out the Qalyana tempered some of the guards. Lyse does a lot of soul searching while missing a friend who did the heavy mental lifting and to be a leader she her self would be proud of. While also being ok with not always being able to do Scion things because of her new role at the end of 4.0. If that's not growth then Idk.

[Haxaan]

This and that now she's trying to figure out what's the best way forward for her country while also taking into account he isn't there and she can't run to a certain general any time a tough choice comes a long. You can see it when she's trying to think of a way of having the Qalyana there at that meeting while also keeping a summoning from happening. Then doing some very quick thinking on her part to get Fordola involved once we find out the Qalyana tempered some of the guards. Lyse does a lot of soul searching while missing a friend who did the heavy mental lifting and to be a leader she her self would be proud of. While also being ok with not always being able to do Scion things because of her new role at the end of 4.0. If that's not growth then Idk.

I appreciate everything that Lyse is going through, where she's come from and where she is headed. I personally just feel that her character depth so far is rather lack luster. And part of that could be due to the voice actress, I don't know. So far I just haven't been very impressed. She kind of reminds me of Yuna from FFX. I absolutely love Yuna now, but when I first played FFX her character bothered me because i felt like she had no depth. I appreciated her journey, her sacrifices and her motivations, but at the time her character was just not what I had expected it to be. After playing FFX-2 and seeing her character evolve and grow up, I felt a better attachment to Yuna as a person and respected her even more for going through everything she went through.

I am hoping that Lyse will get some good character development, because as I've said before I really had big hopes for her. Her reveal gave me a brand new character to look forward to seeing and instead she has become this one dimensional character who you want to feel something for but have a hard time doing.

[Rosenoire]

The point of the difference between Yda's and Lyse's character was the Lyse was essentially pretending to be "someone else" the entire time we knew her. That someone else is "Yda". Once Papalymo dies, Lyse finds out everyone knew she wasn't Yda anyway.

Well, almost everybody.

One of the big problems for me with having her be the main NPC of Stormblood is what her story arc says about the Scions and their relationship to the Warrior of Light. All of the Scions, apparently, knew that she wasn't Yda, which makes sense because unless they were completely identical twins, anyone who knew one would realize something was off. However, at no point did the Scions see fit to mention that to the WoL. I started in Limsa, so that kind of makes sense, but a WoL who started in Gridania, who supposedly knew Yda and Papalymo, never knew about the deception either. Especially after doing the 30-50 DRK quests, Lyse's deception and the fact that the rest of the Scions knew but never told the WoL, only reinforces the idea that they see us as the Weapon of Light, to be taken out and pointed at whatever primal happens to show up and then ignored until the next crisis. Lyse lied to us, and the other Scions were okay with that, and then we have to basically babysit her through Stormblood.