Alphinaud

[Iscah]

I have been praying for Tataru to give Urianger a makeover since they revealed what his face looks like in HW. I absolutely love his design and his character and hope that one day Square will give him the love he deserves (prays it happens in Shadowbringers, since it seems the appropriate time to bring him back to the front line)
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I loved Yda and Papalymo. They were the light on an otherwise gloomy day. Their clever banter and ready to go attitude always made me smile. Lyse... there really isn't much to say about her. She is rather vapid and shallow as far as depth of character are concerned. For someone who is put in such a high place in the plotline she really does nothing to help improve the emotion of the scenes. She just exists. I REALLY hope they do something with her because at this point I'd take Minfillia back over doing another scene with Lyse.

Agreed on both accounts! It seems like a major mistake to have separated Lyse from Papalymo. I assume it was meant to be for character growth, but she's just lost all sign of her previous self.

And yeah, I really like Urianger's design and I hope we see him looking like that more often. (I was just getting used to the fact that this is what he actually looks like, and it was back to the hood and goggles...)

He definitely should get a bigger role - and we'll need him for all the history and arcane knowledge it looks like we're going to need in Shadowbringers!

Yet Alisaie is in her original outfit in Binding Coils of Bahamut, but her and Alphinaud can be seen in their current outfits in Sirensong Sea. I mean I get that they aren't a sidequest giver like Urianger, but I anticipate that most characters have more than one outfit and Urianger just likes to be comfortable in his clothes at the Waking Sands. I don't consider costumes to be absolute since outfits are interchangeable.

The thing with that situation is that 2.X Alisaie in the Binding Coil and 4.0 Alisaie in the Sirensong Sea (and in fact every single version of a character appearing in a different location or in a cutscene) are functionally separate NPCs. The NPC that is 4.0 Alisaie never replaces 2.X Alisaie, they simply appear in different places and during different quests. And time-bubble shenanigans are in play as well - you might be seeing the two Alisaies simultaneously, but they do not actually exist simultaneously. You're just somehow interacting with her at two different points in her life at once, until you've resolved the role you were supposed to play in assisting her younger self. The Binding Coil always takes place in the 2.X period, regardless of when you actually play it.

On the other hand, Urianger is the same NPC located at the Waking Sands from 2.X up to 4.4 (or beyond if you leave his quests unfinished), and has to remain constant. The Waking Sands NPC cannot change costume because then if you walked up to him to start your next step in the Binding Coil quest, if it transitioned to a cutscene he'd suddenly be back in his other costume.

For that matter, I don't think NPCs actually *can* change costume, as such. Their character data includes their gear. For a character to change their clothing, I think it would actually mean having a second NPC at the same location and activating it (and deactivating the original NPC) at the appropriate time. And if you did that to a character who has quests attached to them, I think that would mean the quests are still linked with the original NPC and not the replacement.

Shame he has to be 'unavailable' this time but there's also the less-known Scions like Harry Boulder or Ephemie. I think they will take his spot this time because I can imagine Alisae staring blankly at Urianger's words.

Yes, but how good is Hoary Boulder at decoding and explaining cryptic prophecies upon which rest the fate of this very star?

(Also keep in mind that Urianger's speech is essentially two steps removed from "our" modern English - archaic speech relative to the baseline slightly-archaic version that most characters speak. I assume he must seem to them to be on a similar level as they are to us. And I don't find him that hard to follow anyway.)

I'm pretty sure he has to be back sooner rather than later. Partway through Shadowbringers if not before.

Though one minor Scion I am waiting to hear back from is Dariustel, the Duskwight who was at the Waking Sands for the later part of ARR, and hasn't been seen since. The lorebook says he's currently "working to counter the actions of the beast tribes", so perhaps in a similar role to what we saw in that sidestory with Arenvald and Fordola?

[ObsidianFire]

The point of the difference between Yda's and Lyse's character was the Lyse was essentially pretending to be "someone else" the entire time we knew her. That someone else is "Yda". Once Papalymo dies, Lyse finds out everyone knew she wasn't Yda anyway. So she stops pretending to be "Yda" only to realize that she no longer knows who she is as "Lyse.

Stormblood is Lyse figuring out who "Lyse" is. In fact, 4.0 is framed with Lyse narrating the events to her inner Papalymo. Lyse is telling her best friend how she figured out who she truly is when she's not faking being someone else. It's also good to remember that for all of Stormblood, Lyse is dealing with her best friend's death. No matter who she is, Lyse would always be more subdued because of that. If Lyse didn't change when Papalymo died in some way, I'd think they're relationship wasn't as genuine as it came off. Deaths that don't effect characters are as fake as deaths that aren't permanent.

[Songwillow]

The thing with that situation is that 2.X Alisaie in the Binding Coil and 4.0 Alisaie in the Sirensong Sea (and in fact every single version of a character appearing in a different location or in a cutscene) are functionally separate NPCs. The NPC that is 4.0 Alisaie never replaces 2.X Alisaie, they simply appear in different places and during different quests. And time-bubble shenanigans are in play as well - you might be seeing the two Alisaies simultaneously, but they do not actually exist simultaneously. You're just somehow interacting with her at two different points in her life at once, until you've resolved the role you were supposed to play in assisting her younger self. The Binding Coil always takes place in the 2.X period, regardless of when you actually play it.

On the other hand, Urianger is the same NPC located at the Waking Sands from 2.X up to 4.4 (or beyond if you leave his quests unfinished), and has to remain constant. The Waking Sands NPC cannot change costume because then if you walked up to him to start your next step in the Binding Coil quest, if it transitioned to a cutscene he'd suddenly be back in his other costume.

For that matter, I don't think NPCs actually *can* change costume, as such. Their character data includes their gear. For a character to change their clothing, I think it would actually mean having a second NPC at the same location and activating it (and deactivating the original NPC) at the appropriate time. And if you did that to a character who has quests attached to them, I think that would mean the quests are still linked with the original NPC and not the replacement.

So you think it is a programming design restriction more than anything else? If that is the case, that is unfortunate.

[Draginhikari]

I actually like Lyse well enough, I think she kind of become a bit of a punching bag for the community as a whole kind of like how Minifilia kind of was. Kind of like Minfilia though I think some of the negative traits that are attributed to Lyse tend to get over-exaggerated as a whole. I will agree that Lyse wasn't the greatest thing in character development in the history of XIV but I think she served the purpose she was suppose to serve in Stormblood main story.

[Mansion]

I'm fine with most main NPCs as they are right now, although I'd love a bit more about Urianger! And I would not mind if we'd let Tataru behind in Kugane for 5.0

It's true that the twins have most of the spotlight, but their writing is overall excellent. I like how they fullfil different functions for the WoL, and how they are more complementary to each other than just a duo of characters with the same identity and purpose. I also like how we get "breaks" with them, Alisaie being away for most of HW, and Alphinaud now stepping a bit back from the WoL.
I'd love it if 5.0 consisted on WoL/D and Alisaie trying to get Alphinaud back from whatever could happen to him until then.

What I would like to avoid is getting a "NPC from there" leading 5.0 MSQ (namely what we got with Lyse). It was ok for Stormblood, but I don't want for instance Cid as a main MSQ buddy for 5.0 if we go to Garlemald for instance. I prefer the outcast/lonely feeling we had in Heavensward. But it's just a matter of taste I guess

[Jollyy5]

I don't mind Alphinaud, but he's currently having an adventure of his own, so we'll get a break from him either way.

[TheHeavenAbyss]

I think they could change Urianger's design and explore his story, even with the quest-giver NPC in the Waking Sands. In terms of timeline, it's pretty much accepted that the Binding Coils happened before Alisaie came back in Heavensward. There's also cases like Estinien not recognizing you in the Dragoon Job Quests after you've finished Heavensward's story. So I think that, if Urianger changed in Shadowbringers (or, let's say, even died), he could still appear in the Waking Sands with the quests. Most people would probably assume that this an event that is placed chronologically in ARR (it's a matter of looking at the quest level).

As it stands, right now in the MSQ, Urianger is in a coma... but he still appears in the Waking Sands giving me quests. So the timeline is already broken anyway lol

[Frizze]

What I would like to avoid is getting a "NPC from there" leading 5.0 MSQ (namely what we got with Lyse). It was ok for Stormblood, but I don't want for instance Cid as a main MSQ buddy for 5.0 if we go to Garlemald for instance. I prefer the outcast/lonely feeling we had in Heavensward. But it's just a matter of taste I guess

Right now(pre-patch) if we did get a garlean "escort" it would seem likely to be Cid, Nero or Shadowhunter. None of whom are exactly "welcome" in their native land. So outcast can still easily apply. I didnt really get that much of a lonely feel from HW personally. We spent most of the expansion with Estinien and/or Ysayle(plus Alphy).

[KageTokage]

As it stands, right now in the MSQ, Urianger is in a coma... but he still appears in the Waking Sands giving me quests. So the timeline is already broken anyway lol

He actually disappears if you've completed every sidequest he's involved in.

[Iscah]

The point of the difference between Yda's and Lyse's character was the Lyse was essentially pretending to be "someone else" the entire time we knew her. That someone else is "Yda". Once Papalymo dies, Lyse finds out everyone knew she wasn't Yda anyway. So she stops pretending to be "Yda" only to realize that she no longer knows who she is as "Lyse.

Stormblood is Lyse figuring out who "Lyse" is. In fact, 4.0 is framed with Lyse narrating the events to her inner Papalymo. Lyse is telling her best friend how she figured out who she truly is when she's not faking being someone else. It's also good to remember that for all of Stormblood, Lyse is dealing with her best friend's death. No matter who she is, Lyse would always be more subdued because of that. If Lyse didn't change when Papalymo died in some way, I'd think they're relationship wasn't as genuine as it came off. Deaths that don't effect characters are as fake as deaths that aren't permanent.

I know it's terrible, but I tend to forget that Papalymo died. Perhaps because we never really saw "Yda without Papalymo" to have that absence properly sink in, and then the MSQ was urgently rushing onwards.

It's been a while since my only run through Stormblood, but I think it was only really close to the end that we finally found out that Lyse's narration was supposed to be talking to Papalymo the whole time? Perhaps it would have been better to be clearer from the start, for more of a constant reminder of how much she's thinking of him and missing him.

So you think it is a programming design restriction more than anything else? If that is the case, that is unfortunate.

Prettymuch, yes.

You can see a full list of interactable NPCs in each zone at Garland Tools - the Dravanian field areas are a good example to look at, since the main characters are constantly moving through the area and you talk with them at different locations. What that actually looks like is that, for example, there are over twenty "Alphinaud" NPCs throughout the Dravanian Forelands. Each one has a fixed location and its own set lines of dialogue, and would be set to appear or disappear as you complete certain objectives. Final storytelling result: Alphinaud-the-person is moving from place to place.

I guess it's similar when you approach someone, talk to them and then have to fight them 'on the spot' - you can see the "interactable NPC" vanish and get replaced by a fighting "enemy NPC". Or from memory, "escort FATEs" work similarly - the trigger NPC who stands there waiting for someone to agree to accompany them gets switched out for a mobile "friendly NPC" with a health bar.

I think they could change Urianger's design and explore his story, even with the quest-giver NPC in the Waking Sands. In terms of timeline, it's pretty much accepted that the Binding Coils happened before Alisaie came back in Heavensward. There's also cases like Estinien not recognizing you in the Dragoon Job Quests after you've finished Heavensward's story. So I think that, if Urianger changed in Shadowbringers (or, let's say, even died), he could still appear in the Waking Sands with the quests. Most people would probably assume that this an event that is placed chronologically in ARR (it's a matter of looking at the quest level).

As it stands, right now in the MSQ, Urianger is in a coma... but he still appears in the Waking Sands giving me quests. So the timeline is already broken anyway lol

That's prettymuch what I was thinking.

For someone who had already cleared all the quests that Urianger gives, apparently he was absent from the Waking Sands as soon as the MSQ called for it. But for those of us who still had active quests, he remained present so they could be completed.

If you complete those quests now, he will be absent from the Waking Sands from that point onwards. I saw this happen myself, as I only completed the Binding Coil recently. (Both his quest chains end away from the Sands, so there's no sudden vanishing into thin air, he's just not there the next time you visit.)

So they've already provided that at this point they will make a solid break from having him locked into position for the sake of those quests, and are willing to bend the timeline - not break it as such, just allow a little pocket of 2.X time to continue into the present for as long as it's needed. There can be lots of these strange time pockets about in any case, depending on which "canonically happened" quests you have and haven't completed.

As you mentioned, Estinien in the ARR dragoon questline is a good example of this. Not only does he not recognise you, but he's still the Azure Dragoon and in possession of the (singular!) Eye of Nidhogg. If you're completely beyond Heavensward, everything makes it clear that you've stepped back in time to do this quest - although I imagine it must be a bit confusing if you're partway through Heavensward and Estinien does still look the same in the "present" time as the dragoon quests in the "past". Or if you did them mid-Dragonsong, which would certainly put a different spin on things.