Power-leveling is absolutely BROKEN

[Sephrick]

The best solution imo is to make leveling happen over the course of adventuring, so that people who plevel are essentially skipping real content instead of just grind. Ehhh honestly i dont think there is a perfect answer here.

This is the "Final Fantasy" I remember.

Rarely did I ever run in circles killing the same monsters over and over unless I was short a few Gil and needed to upgrade equipment.

I could care less if there were 1,000 levels and it took 10 years to get to cap as long as leveling is something that happens during content.

I always got my levels in every FF on the way to the next piece of the story or boss. In XI and XIV it just feels like a disjointed chore.

[Physic]

This is the "Final Fantasy" I remember.

Rarely did I ever run in circles killing the same monsters over and over unless I was short a few Gil and needed to upgrade equipment.

I could care less if there were 1,000 levels and it took 10 years to get to cap as long as leveling is something that happens during content.

I always got my levels in every FF on the way to the next piece of the story or boss. In XI and XIV it just feels like a disjointed chore.

yeah i never really understood why the genre shifted from rpg to grind heavy, i mean, i know some people liked to grind and be super powerful for each stage of content in rpgs, but fairly sure the majority of people leveled through the content, and only grinded once they wanted to get to some special content/after they had done everything else.

It makes actual content kind of suck and feel weak, since the chances are probably not at the right content level for whatever the content is.

One solution is to add some actual new adventure based content with optional level caps, where on choosing to be capped you get a tangible bonus to exp/items/GC points or something.

and i mean real content, something probably with an objective, AND a story, with even some exploration involved.

[Rowyne]

This is the "Final Fantasy" I remember.

Rarely did I ever run in circles killing the same monsters over and over unless I was short a few Gil and needed to upgrade equipment.

I could care less if there were 1,000 levels and it took 10 years to get to cap as long as leveling is something that happens during content.

I always got my levels in every FF on the way to the next piece of the story or boss. In XI and XIV it just feels like a disjointed chore.

I think this is the real heart of the matter, right here.

How did a game in the Final Fantasy series--RPGs with stories so engaging you couldn't wait to find out what happened next--become grind fests devoid of content?

Undisguised grinding (as described in the above quote, repeatedly killing the same monsters over and over) should only have to be done in brief amounts, to bridge any small gaps between content, to quickly finish out a level, or farming for items/rep. It should never be the meat and potatoes of any modern MMORPG.

This game has never done a very good job at planning ahead. Upon release, guildleves and behests were pretty much the only content you had to level from. When it was discovered that going from 1-50 primarily from leves was pretty much driving players insane, Yoshi-P made the announcement that FFXIV would shift from a grind-centric game, with ever-expanding content and a variety of leveling options. Leves were no longer the main focus and shifted to solo content. It was a great idea, and the right direction to go. Problem was, they did that before putting enough alternatives in place. A handful of quests, two instanced dungeons and the beginnings of the Grand Companies do not qualify as engaging leveling content (I don't mean to sound ungrateful that the dev team has implemented this, but it's just not enough). So, ironically, what is now the main focus of leveling? Grinding.

Tell me again how we're shifting from a grind-centric game...?

I think a lot people, no matter how they feel about powerleveling, will agree that mindless grinding is not fun. The real problem is that SE is, once again, breaking an aspect of their game to 'fix' something else. Like the RMT preventions originally in place - software mouse, fatigue, market wards. Choices that lead to future issues. Allowing powerleveling may help people overlook the glaring lack of content and skyrocket through the grind, but it will lead to other problems.

I usually hate when people talk about other games like this, but... I got my husband SW:TOR for Christmas, and a copy for myself so I could play with him. It's honestly not even a genre I'm particularly interested in, but I gave it a try. We started playing Friday, and continued on Saturday. In fact, our first play session lasted 15 hours we were having so much fun. And we're not even level 15 yet. It's all story-driven questing. We already did a mini-dungeon at level 10. It was difficult to admit that I've had more fun playing that game this weekend than the one year plus I've been playing FFXIV.

It made me realize that this game needs some major restructuring. I'm not asking for non-stop voiced-over cinematic cutscenes (though at least one game has now proven that it's feasible). But it definitely needs some real story-driven content, at all levels, to keep my attention. The leveling options that Yoshi-P talked about once upon a time. Don't give us ways to quickly bypass the levels. Give us content that makes us want to play through the levels. And if that doesn't happen with 2.0, I'm afraid a lot of players will look elsewhere to games that can and will offer it.

TL;DR Powerleveling is a cheap 'fix' for a bigger problem.

[DeadRiser]

I think this is the real heart of the matter, right here.

How did a game in the Final Fantasy series--RPGs with stories so engaging you couldn't wait to find out what happened next--become grind fests devoid of content?

Undisguised grinding (as described in the above quote, repeatedly killing the same monsters over and over) should only have to be done in brief amounts, to bridge any small gaps between content, to quickly finish out a level, or farming for items/rep. It should never be the meat and potatoes of any modern MMORPG.

This game has never done a very good job at planning ahead. Upon release, guildleves and behests were pretty much the only content you had to level from. When it was discovered that going from 1-50 primarily from leves was pretty much driving players insane, Yoshi-P made the announcement that FFXIV would shift from a grind-centric game, with ever-expanding content and a variety of leveling options. Leves were no longer the main focus and shifted to solo content. It was a great idea, and the right direction to go. Problem was, they did that before putting enough alternatives in place. A handful of quests, two instanced dungeons and the beginnings of the Grand Companies do not qualify as engaging leveling content (I don't mean to sound ungrateful that the dev team has implemented this, but it's just not enough). So, ironically, what is now the main focus of leveling? Grinding.

Tell me again how we're shifting from a grind-centric game...?

I think a lot people, no matter how they feel about powerleveling, will agree that mindless grinding is not fun. The real problem is that SE is, once again, breaking an aspect of their game to 'fix' something else. Like the RMT preventions originally in place - software mouse, fatigue, market wards. Choices that lead to future issues. Allowing powerleveling may help people overlook the glaring lack of content and skyrocket through the grind, but it will lead to other problems.

I usually hate when people talk about other games like this, but... I got my husband SW:TOR for Christmas, and a copy for myself so I could play with him. It's honestly not even a genre I'm particularly interested in, but I gave it a try. We started playing Friday, and continued on Saturday. In fact, our first play session lasted 15 hours we were having so much fun. And we're not even level 15 yet. It's all story-driven questing. We already did a mini-dungeon at level 10. It was difficult to admit that I've had more fun playing that game this weekend than the one year plus I've been playing FFXIV.

It made me realize that this game needs some major restructuring. I'm not asking for non-stop voiced-over cinematic cutscenes (though at least one game has now proven that it's feasible). But it definitely needs some real story-driven content, at all levels, to keep my attention. The leveling options that Yoshi-P talked about once upon a time. Don't give us ways to quickly bypass the levels. Give us content that makes us want to play through the levels. And if that doesn't happen with 2.0, I'm afraid a lot of players will look elsewhere to games that can and will offer it.

TL;DR Powerleveling is a cheap 'fix' for a bigger problem.

The truth, nothing but the damn truth.

But of course, I'd be not even the slightest surprised if all the people for powerleveling won't answer to this.

Progression is what makes an MMO, not getting to cap the fastest.

[AmyRae]

The truth, nothing but the damn truth.

But of course, I'd be not even the slightest surprised if all the people for powerleveling won't answer to this.

Progression is what makes an MMO, not getting to cap the fastest.

I am for powerleveling, but I think you're right.

If they could include an engaging progression, there'd be no reason to have any powerleveling (or at least, less of a reason). But I don't think there's enough of the regular game to slow down for before endgame, even if the excuse is "learning to play your class." They've just revamped the abilities of every single class and I've yet to see a thread admonishing everyone to wipe their character and start from level 1 all over because if you don't you'll never learn your class. Somehow I think deep down people realize you don't really need a slow level progression to figure out what to do.

I've accepted that much of the story-based content is going straight into 2.0, not this version of the game, and it's not something I wish to contest. For now, the excitement is at endgame. That's why I don't mind there being shortcuts to get to it quicker, even though that's not the most amusing part of the game for me.

[Physic]

I think this is the real heart of the matter, right here.

How did a game in the Final Fantasy series--RPGs with stories so engaging you couldn't wait to find out what happened next--become grind fests devoid of content?

Undisguised grinding (as described in the above quote, repeatedly killing the same monsters over and over) should only have to be done in brief amounts, to bridge any small gaps between content, to quickly finish out a level, or farming for items/rep. It should never be the meat and potatoes of any modern MMORPG.

This game has never done a very good job at planning ahead. Upon release, guildleves and behests were pretty much the only content you had to level from. When it was discovered that going from 1-50 primarily from leves was pretty much driving players insane, Yoshi-P made the announcement that FFXIV would shift from a grind-centric game, with ever-expanding content and a variety of leveling options. Leves were no longer the main focus and shifted to solo content. It was a great idea, and the right direction to go. Problem was, they did that before putting enough alternatives in place. A handful of quests, two instanced dungeons and the beginnings of the Grand Companies do not qualify as engaging leveling content (I don't mean to sound ungrateful that the dev team has implemented this, but it's just not enough). So, ironically, what is now the main focus of leveling? Grinding.

Tell me again how we're shifting from a grind-centric game...?

I think a lot people, no matter how they feel about powerleveling, will agree that mindless grinding is not fun. The real problem is that SE is, once again, breaking an aspect of their game to 'fix' something else. Like the RMT preventions originally in place - software mouse, fatigue, market wards. Choices that lead to future issues. Allowing powerleveling may help people overlook the glaring lack of content and skyrocket through the grind, but it will lead to other problems.

I usually hate when people talk about other games like this, but... I got my husband SW:TOR for Christmas, and a copy for myself so I could play with him. It's honestly not even a genre I'm particularly interested in, but I gave it a try. We started playing Friday, and continued on Saturday. In fact, our first play session lasted 15 hours we were having so much fun. And we're not even level 15 yet. It's all story-driven questing. We already did a mini-dungeon at level 10. It was difficult to admit that I've had more fun playing that game this weekend than the one year plus I've been playing FFXIV.

It made me realize that this game needs some major restructuring. I'm not asking for non-stop voiced-over cinematic cutscenes (though at least one game has now proven that it's feasible). But it definitely needs some real story-driven content, at all levels, to keep my attention. The leveling options that Yoshi-P talked about once upon a time. Don't give us ways to quickly bypass the levels. Give us content that makes us want to play through the levels. And if that doesn't happen with 2.0, I'm afraid a lot of players will look elsewhere to games that can and will offer it.

TL;DR Powerleveling is a cheap 'fix' for a bigger problem.

yeah i think the grind only method of progression is going to die in the genre. I know that one of swtors big selling points is that it is a story based MMO. I know that gW2 will have personal story, and also a lot of event based leveling, point is, the go to an area and kill the same mobs repeatedly shouldnt be the only form of progression in an rpg. Im not saying it shouldnt be a feasible option, but i think the best way to tell a story well, is really through adventure, having the big missions is cool, but they really have to do a better job with the content. At the very least one of your jobs should be able to level while pursuing and developing interesting activities that involve exploration and interaction with the world they are creating, and the main plotlines of the game.

[Req]

yeah i think the grind only method of progression is going to die in the genre. I know that one of swtors big selling points is that it is a story based MMO. I know that gW2 will have personal story, and also a lot of event based leveling, point is, the go to an area and kill the same mobs repeatedly shouldnt be the only form of progression in an rpg. Im not saying it shouldnt be a feasible option, but i think the best way to tell a story well, is really through adventure, having the big missions is cool, but they really have to do a better job with the content. At the very least one of your jobs should be able to level while pursuing and developing interesting activities that involve exploration and interaction with the world they are creating, and the main plotlines of the game.

Isn't that kind of what they are doing with the advanced job system?