An impassioned plea from a WoW member, A lesson for FFXIV.

[Hanzar]

@Deceptus a small side note here, the company making Diablo has a long co-op with Blizzard for years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NetEase

One of them is Operates Overwatch in China. And from people in esports I heard they handle the esports scene there much better than Blizzard does. So they know at least what they are doing ^^

[Theodric]

There are multiple mounts (white and red magitek armors, whale), emotes (the new sidestep and box step, powerup, megaflare), and items that are only available for real world currency. Many of them aren't from past events.

At least some of those emotes and mounts are also from the Chinese/Korean servers.

Others - such as the Shiva and Odin emote - are specifically tied to merchandise as an added bonus and incentive to purchase them. A common business practice in general.

Those that aren't tied to the Chinese/Korean servers are simply targeted at players with a disposable income. It's little different to how most supermarkets sell luxury products for those with extra coin to spend.

[Adrestia]

I too pay $13/mo for the privilege of walking in the doors of Safeway.

[Geigerette]

I came to FFXIV from WoW, and it wasn't because of a post, it was because I was feeling pretty much the same way after steady off and on playing since 2005. I quit WoW a couple of times for NWO, to go back to GW and I think I tried AoC, but my computer at the time couldn't handle that beast, but I always went back as a new game missed that thing I couldn't quite explain.

For me, the magic had been gone for a long time. Friends and I would sit in discord complaining about the game while we were playing it and with valid reasons as to why this or that let us down. We were doing the same thing every day. PVP'ing in the 110 bracket and running 110 content. When that was boring, running older content for visual appearances. Meanwhile, we're all skipping the new content because we're done with it or don't like it and we're still paying a subscription.

With those conversations in mind I stumbled across a post previous to the above C&P on Reddit that was not only well written, it talked about how paying a subscription should include regular content, and a game that was just recycling and rehashing the old stuff was just taking you for a ride. I thought about it and I agreed, I mean, that was all I had been doing. I was literally just killing X and X and Y and Z every week in hopes for a drop so I could LOOK cooler. It didn't advance my character, and any advancement we had at this point, had been stripped. My character wasn't growing stronger, she was actually being gimped every patch and expansion so that I would have to try and get back to where I was. To me, the development was sawing a little off of my leg each time and hoping I didn't notice how short I had become. I was REALLY unhappy and I was taking it out on the community around me. I think we all were.

Around the same time I read this post, Blizzard posted on their own forums about how they would like our vote for "Best MMORPG". There was an overwhelming backlash, and a lot of "Not even close", with a favourable word or twenty about FFXIV and I decided, why not ... free download, free trial. I'll try it. So far, I agree with it. I've already bought the game, set up a sub, bought the CE and some other shop stuff and I'm okay with that. I am happy to give it money because I want to see it prosper. When I see the detail and care put into it, I see people building this game who LOVE the world they have created and love games and want to contribute to that the most I can. As for the cash shop over at Blizzard? I used to buy mounts and pets, around WotLK, when I still believed they gave a crap too. Their loyalty to me was fickle, so, I showed them that mine could be too.

They stripped it all from us. Progression, professions. Your reputation no longer mattered. Your guild no longer mattered, or it mattered too much. The community became a cesspool of bad language and worse deeds. No one cared about you or hurting you. Blizzard would come after the really atrocious offenders but so much had been allowed to go on for so long, it was hard to contain. It was all being stripped away. No one cared if you were the only person on your server who could make that rare thing that they wanted, because no one wanted it anymore. The player as an individual was skipped and disregarded because the next group was a random away.

I read the post that was the subject of this topic while it was still fresh on Reddit and I dare say it's spot on, it definitely summed up my ending experience with Blizzard and the World of Warcraft, and I think it's time I move on. I already have. FFXIV doesn't have that one thing. It has ALL the things, and I'm hooked.

[Alexandre_Noireau]

ah the whole content is stale argument again. just because something comes to us on a predictable cycle doesn't mean it's stale. it means we can measure out what we can expect on a regular basis instead of being left in the dark for like 3-6-9 months with no word from devs.

But it is, here is a short description for example, of every dungeon in the game save, 2 or 3 exceptions:

Corridor, 3-4 groups of monsters, boss arena (circular or squared), corridor, 3-4 groups of monsters, boss arena (circular or squared), corridor, 3-4 groups of monsters, final boss arena (circular or square). Just check the damned burn, the last boss arena, is like they didn't make any effort at all. Not to mention the reuse of assets basically everywhere, like, 90% of the burn already existed in game. Mechanics wise, all repeated mechanics and attacks of previous bosses and even simplified raid boss mechanics.

You say the game is not stagnant, yet, 5 years later, and we still seeing divebombs, meteor mechanics, cover in mechanics, group together, split mechanics, yes, how you combine is interesting and unique, but after 5 years, when all your reward structures are predictable (or the worse alternative, are RNG based), the core design of all content has not changed a bit, and you have seen that damned enemy model for the 191th time, barely with a different color or some add on, you know the game is actually stagnated. Like, seriously, if shadowbringers add a new tomestone, like, do i even have to make this a point.

Once yoshida got asked about this, years ago, 2.4-2.5 it was, since many of us, started noticing how every patch assets were being reused ad nauseum and reward structures and basically the whole game wasn't changing at all, he replied: "if we were to do things different, like, giving you no content, then you would not like it." That reply says a lot, basically is saying that this is it or nothing, and that lack of innovation after years will show up. I mean, people honestly believe heaven on high is new content. It is not, is first off all procedurally generated, laziest possible way to design a game btw, but due to its "roguelike" nature it blends kinda well. Then all assets in that are from somewhere else... All mechanics or most of them are reused too... Only writing is different and music... The structure is just the same as PoTD... With less floors. Is like when people call FATEs in eureka "Notorious Monsters." Come on.

The only diference in gear between 2.0, 3,0 and 4,0... Are arbitrary numbers that get higher, that about it. I remember it making a difference during the leveling process, now days, is like, where are we now? meh.

FFXIV isn't in anywhere near as dire a situation as WoW. The developers have clear passion for FFXIV and have been pretty open and honest about being fine with players taking a break every now and then so that they can play other games.

The arguments against the Mog Station are deceptive, too. Most of the items added there are rewards from previous seasonal events and items brought over from the Korean and Chinese servers by popular request. They're designed specifically for the Mog Station in those regions, so getting them for free here wouldn't make much sense.

First off, the whole genre is in a dire situation. That FFXIV is doing "good", means nothing when year after year the playerbase of all MMORPG are leaving... Also, by all metrics we actually have, FFXIV population is also stabilizing finally thanks to Stormblood. SE will sell you that wonderous 14 million accounts and whatnot, marketing; reality is, at october 2018, only somewhat above 600k had the yol mount of 4.0 main scenario. Give and take that some may hide their info, etc, etc, lets assume there is 1.000.000 players right now. You are telling me, that out of 14 million accounts, only 1/14 of them play the game. That is very telling of a game you know... For being such a high profile MMORPG, for example, barely 5k players have played FFXIV on steam this past month...

And the cash shop... It really worrying how it has become. And the App... Sorry, but SE already see us more like payers than players, and is probably why this whole genre is going down the drain. Between cheap korean rip-off, late arrivales, crowdfunded vaporware projects and WoW rip-offs... Yeah. FFXIV is like an island, ill grant you that, but for that very same reason, i wanna see more stuff being done than just "repeating what works"... And i want serious attempts, not damned Eureka aka: The diadem but without flight.

[DrWho2010]

i have a feeling anything they came up with you would not like. =p

dungeons are just supposed to be get in get out. i get enough headaches with people not playing their jobs properly in them that makes it difficult enough. of course if you play with other high level people it will be a cakewalk.

[Theodric]

I find that people who obsess over numbers are cynical enough to not find much enjoyment in their hobbies in general. At some point, certain individuals find themselves having more complaints than compliments when it comes to something they used to enjoy. It happens - it's part of life. It's usually a good point to move on, though, rather than stubbornly cling to that particular thing in the hope that it'll suddenly change.

Many people enjoy FFXIV as it is at present and aren't keen to see things change drastically for the sake of it every few months.

[Adrestia]

i have a feeling anything they came up with you would not like. =p

dungeons are just supposed to be get in get out

You don’t think that design is part of the problem? “You’re not going to enjoy this. You want to collect the rewards as fast as possible.”

[Adrestia]

I find that people who obsess over numbers are cynical enough to not find much enjoyment in their hobbies in general.

You might want to cite your sources on that. Poker stars universally hate the game? Pro sports players who study playbooks and work out 7 days a week hate their sports? Movie critics hate movies? Game enthusiasts hate games. It’s obvious.

[Noodle_Trinidad]

i have a feeling anything they came up with you would not like. =p

dungeons are just supposed to be get in get out. i get enough headaches with people not playing their jobs properly in them that makes it difficult enough. of course if you play with other high level people it will be a cakewalk.

What a weak argument that is, especially when the mess of 1.0 managed to make dungeon running more engaging than FFXIV ARR+ ever has.


This is Cutter's Cry before its revamp into ARR's Cutter's Cry. It gave reason for the party to split up and sync up their kills to get certain chests. It gave reasons to keep wanting to go back in and properly gear your characters out, though part of that also had to do with the limited pool of gear, and it made sure to not put all the best gear in one dungeon splitting it among the 1.0 version of Aurum Vale that had its own unique setup. The issue is we shouldn't expect dungeons to be content that is just forgotten after being done once instead we should be expecting the Devs to further their design philosophy once they finally know how to make a base dungeon. The dungeons have kept following the same setup for years now and while it was fine during the reboot launch you would have expected some work being put into them to make them more interesting than they are now. The only good piece of battle content that has some seem growth has been Raid Bosses.