So, Seiryu is a snake...

[YianKutku]

I think that it should also be mentioned that Snakes and Dragons are surprisingly interchangeable in a lot of mythological systems around the world.

Not really in Chinese or Japanese tradition, though. They're considered distinct animals, despite similarities in shape. (The interchangeable ones are sheep and goats.) The snake in the Four Gods in particular is supposed to be associated with Genbu, as in a tortoise with a snake wrapped around it.

In a lot of Japanese pop culture (eg anime) where they can't show an actual dragon, the "dragon" representation is usually a seahorse, for some reason.

In FFXIV Seiryu's case, I'm just assuming that an actual dragon or seahorse would be too weird, so they used snakes as the basis. Which, as mentioned in this thread, makes sense for auspices.

[Bright-Flower]

Because Au Ra aren't dragons? They just look a little bit like them.

They're also not beastmen, even as the line between "men" and "beastmen" becomes increasingly blurred. It sounds like only animals can become auspices, and Kojin are included, but there's no mention of it happening to the "human" races.

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It also occurred to me that Seiryu might not be a snake but a peiste, or a hydra if they count as normal animals. They're designed as snakes with legs to begin with, so it makes sense, and the model for Seiryu probably is reusing that 'skeleton'.

Exactly. Dragons in FFXIV are already intelligent. The point was that having an au ra or any other sentient race be an auspice is kind of silly, though au ra would actually be less silly than dragons because Au Ra don't have super long life spans naturally like dragons do. My main point is that dragons are not 'animals' in the same way tigers, turtles and snakes are. A dragon auspice wouldn't make any sense just as an au ra or hyur asupice wouldn't make any sense.

[Songwillow]

This iteration of Seiryu appears to be most similar to Yamata no Orochi in Japanese Mythology. This was an 8 headed, 8 tailed Japanese dragon. In the Japanese lore, Yamata no Orochi was fought and slain by Susano-o because the dragon was eating the daughters of an deity.

While I'm used to seeing Seiryu as a serpentine dragon based on eastern dragon mythology, but seeing this version is interesting due to the mix of two dragons in Japanese mythology. Granted, I could imagine it having the traditional serpentine form at some point in the fight (just as most of the four lords had two fighting forms).

Considering that I anticipate a fight with the great golden dragon Kohryu after the fight with the four lords, I imagine that it is going to have the traditional eastern dragon form.

[YianKutku]

While I'm used to seeing Seiryu as a serpentine dragon based on eastern dragon mythology

Also the representation on the map of Hydaelyn:



Unless that's Kohryuu and Seiryu is off the map edges for some reason.

[Iscah]

In a lot of Japanese pop culture (eg anime) where they can't show an actual dragon, the "dragon" representation is usually a seahorse, for some reason.

The Japanese word for seahorse is "tatsunoko", or literally "dragon's child".

Exactly. Dragons in FFXIV are already intelligent. The point was that having an au ra or any other sentient race be an auspice is kind of silly [...]

...and yet a Kojin can canonically become an auspice. Where exactly is the line then, if beings already of human-like mind and speech are still eligible?

I agree that dragons are unlikely, but that's because they're already naturally powerful.

Alternately it could be that they technically *do* become auspices, but their inherent power level is high enough that it doesn't actually affect them. Or perhaps it's even the driving force behind the drastic changes in form that they can undergo over time.

Or they don't count because they're basically aliens, or something.

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A rather curious piece of information I noticed while double-checking the quest script... the artifact we recovered from the Swallow's Compass has the potential to bring death to an auspice.

I get a feeling we may need to make use of it before this story is complete...

Also the representation on the map of Hydaelyn:



Unless that's Kohryuu and Seiryu is off the map edges for some reason.

Interesting thought, actually - and that dragon is red, while Seiryu should be blue. Though of course it could be just an artistic choice for the map illustration.

[Balphagor_]

Also the representation on the map of Hydaelyn:



Unless that's Kohryuu and Seiryu is off the map edges for some reason.

Well actually now we know what we do it is VERY likely that that is Kohryu because now it could be showing all 5 on the map, as clearly we see Genbu with a snake in the picture (like the real world inspiration), which would still remain accurate.

[Songwillow]

Honestly I'm taking the art as artistic representation of the four lords in Hingan culture. Since these artists would not know what they truly look like, I can imagine that they are taking liberties of what they imagine they look like instead. I think the dragon is Seiryu still on that map, Genbu appears completely different since it has the traditional japanese art of it.

[Jonnycbad]

Koryu is a gold dragon and the golden hair on that above dragon resembled what would be a golden dragon. We don't get to fight a gold dragon, but technically Midgardsrmr in O11 is what would have been a Gold dragon (as is Shinryu, which like Koryu/Ouryu, commands all the elements).

[Bright-Flower]

The Japanese word for seahorse is "tatsunoko", or literally "dragon's child".





...and yet a Kojin can canonically become an auspice. Where exactly is the line then, if beings already of human-like mind and speech are still eligible?

I agree that dragons are unlikely, but that's because they're already naturally powerful.

Alternately it could be that they technically *do* become auspices, but their inherent power level is high enough that it doesn't actually affect them. Or perhaps it's even the driving force behind the drastic changes in form that they can undergo over time.

Or they don't count because they're basically aliens, or something.

---

A rather curious piece of information I noticed while double-checking the quest script... the artifact we recovered from the Swallow's Compass has the potential to bring death to an auspice.

I get a feeling we may need to make use of it before this story is complete...





Interesting thought, actually - and that dragon is red, while Seiryu should be blue. Though of course it could be just an artistic choice for the map illustration.

That's true, it's a bit odd with Soroban, though they were also doing it through artificial means. It just seems to me though that an actual dragon auspice wouldn't actually get much out of it beyond a phase 2 transformation I guess.

[Songwillow]

Considering that many mythologies involve creatures ascending to some form of divine state or godhood, this is something that doesn't surprise me. Soroban's case was an extreme case due to the concern of the aramitama situation. I can imagine that anything could become an auspice as long as they are considered worthy to do so. I think this story mixes a lot of interesting eastern stories including Journey to the West which might explain why the monkey king named as Qitian Dasheng is involved at the Swallow's Compass, also explaining the idea of a man who walks on a journey for enlightenment with unlikely companions, and Kojiki which talks of the Yamata no Orochi being slain by Susano-o.