It's gone too far about the mog station SE

[ApolloGenX]

Okay, this whole statement just completely baffles me. What, exactly would you have MMOs do then? Release every single thing at once and don't release anything else except maintenance/hotfix patches until the next expansion two years later? That seems like a bad business model to have for an MMO.

Yeah, I know- software delivery methods have changed. Maybe it's not reasonable to expect full expansions on delivery like when EQ was the biggest game. However- I have seen the relative quality drop from lots of new zones, questlines, factions, etc. being added... to just rehashed versions of prior content with a harder difficulty. The amount of unique content has diminished significantly under this method, imo.

If you compare something like Luclin or Velious in sheer size and volume... to this expansion... to me there's just no contest. New expansions used to mean new systems, methods of advancement, and all sorts of stuff besides new races and classes.

[KaivaC]

Yeah, I know- software delivery methods have changed. Maybe it's not reasonable to expect full expansions on delivery like when EQ was the biggest game. However- I have seen the relative quality drop from lots of new zones, questlines, factions, etc. being added... to just rehashed versions of prior content with a harder difficulty. The amount of unique content has diminished significantly under this method, imo.

If you compare something like Luclin or Velious in sheer size and volume... to this expansion... to me there's just no contest. New expansions used to mean new systems, methods of advancement, and all sorts of stuff besides new races and classes.

Back in EverQuest's heyday, they had significantly less competition and could afford to take risks with expansions like that. ...I'd go further as to say that EverQuest didn't quite have to deal with the competition that games do nowadays, especially the struggling MMO market now. I don't wanna derail this thread though, since I kinda did just butt in to challenge your point. Maybe in another thread later on, we can talk at length about it.

[Adrestia]

Okay, this whole statement just completely baffles me. What, exactly would you have MMOs do then? Release every single thing at once and don't release anything else except maintenance/hotfix patches until the next expansion two years later? That seems like a bad business model to have for an MMO.

That is how it used to be done, and in fact when some things were “gated” out to give the development team time to finish the content, players got pretty upset. I imagine if you cruise the fohguuld forums (now on rerolled), eq2flames, and some old old WoW forums, you’ll find lots of stories about this. Players would get to a certain point and then just...the game didn’t progress any more. Bug reports would get responses indicating that the players just hadn’t figured it out yet, but one day a patch without patch notes would come out and suddenly we could get to places we couldn’t get before.

As far as viability of releasing all at once, in the context of the theme park style MMO wer’re currently playing, I think you’re right. The content isn’t meant to be repeated ad nauseam, the grinds are short to nonexistent, and the content would just never last.

That said, when WoW does a major point release, you tend to get something like 10-14 new raid bosses in a big zone to explore for the ambience. Recently there has also been “MSQ” type content that progresses the story of the expansion. The XIV community is accepting of vastly smaller patches, which is fine I guess.

There’s another thread going on right now that I’ve posted in a bit, discussing the way content is currently trickled out to us. Feedback on the 4.5 release schedule. I’m actually pretty sad about the micro-releases because as a player who wants to explore and fumble around at my own pace, I’m instead funneled down a narrow hallway of content that the dev team decided to give me at any point in time. It just plays differently and feels different. I’d rather get a gigantic mega-expansion. That comes with some costs though like requiring long grinds and repeat farms (non-instanced, contested bosses meant you had to race to them with whatever you had online, so it wasn’t always the same fight every single time). I know those costs aren’t okay with the majority and that’s why it’s done this way now. I’ll be interested to see if a game like Pantheon actually does better, but for now I make the most of the status quo and enjoy it for what it is. It’s just not the *only* way to release content. It’s the one that the majority like.

E: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...edule-FEEDBACK is a thread where that’s more the topic, Kaiva. There’s a lot of good discussion in there.

[Ilan]

And another thread. Mogstation is evil *insert more stuff* and yet so many people buy stuff from there.

[Theodric]

There's nothing 'corrupt' about the Mog Station. If someone genuinely believes that the Mog Station is reprehensible then they should be voting with their wallet. Otherwise it's just hot air.

[KaivaC]

E: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...edule-FEEDBACK is a thread where that’s more the topic, Kaiva. There’s a lot of good discussion in there.

Oh yeah, I'm aware of that thread. I'm trying to avoid getting into long discussions, though. Don't wanna get out of my depth.

[Adrestia]

There's nothing 'corrupt' about the Mog Station. If someone genuinely believes that the Mog Station is reprehensible then they should be voting with their wallet. Otherwise it's just hot air.

I’m not necessarily saying the Mog Station itself is corrupt. I’m saying it and MTX economies at large are a corrupting influence on game design.

As far as “voting with their wallet,” I believe in discussing issues and trying to come to a good solution for everyone rather than just abandoning things, but maybe that’s just me.

There may be a time for me or for any given player when they say “that’s the last straw, I’m out,” but I enjoy the game and would like to continue enjoying it, if that future is possible. For me, the whole datacenter split thing is the closest I’ve gotten to just not being able to continue throwing my money at the game, and I still hope to see a better resolution than we’re currently being offered. Time will tell.

There’s a utilitarian argument to be made that all of this could be pointless talk and no change will ever come, but if there weren’t people wanting to discuss the issue then the thread wouldn’t exist. If you don’t like the content, you don’t have to read it. Or better yet, read it, try to understand others’ point of view, and then decide how you feel. But that’s your call what you want to do with your time.

[SturmChurro]

I’m not necessarily saying the Mog Station itself is corrupt. I’m saying it and MTX economies at large are a corrupting influence on game design.

The only way it wouldn't be corrupt to you would be if they remove it, I assume.

[Adrestia]

The only way it wouldn't be corrupt to you would be if they remove it, I assume.

I literally said I’m not saying “it is corrupt” in what you quoted. If you have a problem with the phrase “corrupting influence,” replace it with “warping” or “distorting” influence or whatever floats your boat. It’s an external factor altering the original course of game design.

They can sell all the horse armor they want in the Mog Station and I have no problem with that. The problem is when they take things that would normally be expected to be part of a game in this genre, pull them out of the game, and then charge extra for them. There are a huge number of posts in this thread explaining that.

This is what people expect inventory expansion to look like in a subscription based AAA MMO:
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/r...l?recipe=11477
https://www.wowhead.com/the-big-bag-guide
https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Mog_Safe
https://uo.stratics.com/database/vie...meitem&id=2052
https://telarapedia.gamepedia.com/Spiritweave_Bag

Know where I buy storage space? Path of Exile. A free to play game.

[SturmChurro]

I literally said I’m not saying “it is corrupt” in what you quoted. If you have a problem with the phrase “corrupting influence,” replace it with “warping” or “distorting” influence or whatever floats your boat. It’s an external factor altering the original course of game design.

They can sell all the horse armor they want in the Mog Station and I have no problem with that. The problem is when they take things that would normally be expected to be part of a game in this genre, pull them out of the game, and then charge extra for them. There are a huge number of posts in this thread explaining that.

What was expected to be in the game and taken out?