Is it wrong to run Castrum Abania as a tank at ilvl 272

[Melichoir]

Well thats no good. There should be a minimum iLvL on lvling content as well. The only reason I could think they wouldnt do that is cause HoH and PotD exist.

Well thats dumb. Oh well. Ill retract what I said about iLvL minimums then.

[Lorgana]

From your account, the healer and DPS were in the wrong.

You werent undergeared for the dungeon, per say. Scratch that, you wre semi under geared, or atleast meeting the bare minimum iLvL. You shouldve had higher level gear. HOWEVER, this is also dependant on quite a few things. As a point, how fast you were leveling and how much dungeon running you do makes a difference in where you get your gear from. The Dungeon did let you run it, considering your iLvL, so whether you were 'under geared' from the perspective of the other players or not is irrelevant. The game's content allowed for you to be there, so your gear at that point is a moot aspect. What's more important at that point is what youre doing. If youre using Grit and properly CDing, than its your healer and DPSs fault. They have no recourse to saying "Youre under geared" if the dungeon is allowing you access. But this is the problem with DF broadly.

The trouble wtih DF and the like, particularly this late into the xpac, is people get lazy and forget that not everyone is iLvL 350+. They forget that bosses and mechanics dictate a certain level of play and understanding. So they go about trying to do things like they would with an 'overgeared' tank, and then when they get a tank thats fresh into that content and isnt iLvL capped, things go wrong and tehy get pissed that they have to actually use their heads and actually do the more 'boring' aspects of their jobs. They cant just tunnel vision and face roll.

At the end of the day, each role has hardset requirements. Tanks are supposed to tank the mechanics and hold hate, Healers are supposed to keep the party alive and well, and DPS are suppose to burn the boss and adds down. That is the most basic and fundamental part of the roles. Now there is overlap. Tanks and Healers are expected to DPS as well, DPS are expected to help with mitigation and hate management, Tanks are expected to CD properly to take the load of healers. So obviously it's not cut and dry. But at the end of the day, people have their roles and theyre expected to fill them at the minimum.

If the tank is taking damage and is properly CDing, it doesnt matter what their gear is, Healers and DPS need to assist in keeping the tank alive. Just like that tank needs to be keeping aggro so the DPS and healers are free to do their jobs.

Absolutely I agree that it doesn’t really matter if the tank is undergeared at all.
Understanding that its that whole party that has to help in content is key to us all getting along
Truth be told I don’t know why people are getting so upset over all this.
I think maybe we got off on the wrong foot? Idk
So in short, we shouldn’t really be arguing like this over simple things, we can all be friends right?
Maybe we should just leave it here?

[Ilan]

Well thats no good. There should be a minimum iLvL on lvling content as well. The only reason I could think they wouldnt do that is cause HoH and PotD exist.

Well thats dumb. Oh well. Ill retract what I said about iLvL minimums then.

HoH and PotD are something else, but there was never a min ilvl for leveling dungeons which is pretty sad.

[Penthea]

I suspect people like Fynlar will be extremely annoyed that they'll have to spend money to get better gear or actually re-run dgns that drop guaranteed gear until they meet ilvl requirements but at least it'll stop people going into these dgns undergeared because they feel like they don't need the better gear because they're completely oblivious that they're getting carried by their healer.

There's a place for people like this. It's called Heaven on High.

If someone is too lazy to upgrade their gear then they should do everyone a favour and stick to content where gear has no impact.

ilvl lock needs to be a thing.

Absolutely. Even in very low lvl dungeons. I have seen players in Brayflox normal with the lvl 15 novice hall gear equipped. Nearly every time I saw a tank or healer do this the dungeon was impossible to do. One dps can get away with it as long as the rest of the party is geared properly.

If this is the case, then yeah, thats a problem with the DF.

While there is definitely an issue with DF this does not absolve OP of all guilt. They harped on about how they're a veteran from ARR and know the tank role really well. They should know that doing lvl 65+ dungeons in 270 gear is going to force other players to carry them.

Absolutely I agree that it doesn’t really matter if the tank is undergeared at all.

Truth be told I don’t know why people are getting so upset over all this.

Either you have been an extremely fortunate healer, or you have never healed.

Understanding that its that whole party that has to help in content is key to us all getting along

And having appropriate gear is part of helping the group. If mere mental teamwork was enough to get everyone through the game then gear upgrades wouldn't exist.

So in short, we shouldn’t really be arguing like this over simple things

Agreed. If people completed the simple task of having appropriate gear for content then threads like this wouldn't exist. It's a problem with a very simple solution.

[Melichoir]

HoH and PotD are something else, but there was never a min ilvl for leveling dungeons which is pretty sad.

PotD allow for classes to level without entering dungeons and seeing that gear. Its a 'backdoor' I guess you could say. You wouldnt likely get to lvl 69 if you were dungeon grinding and still be only at 272 UNLESS you have some pretty huge gear disparities (lvl 285 gear balanced against lvl 260 gear). That could happen, but Im not saying thats likely unless the OP had terrible RNG and no tank gear ever dropped.

While there is definitely an issue with DF this does not absolve OP of all guilt. They harped on about how they're a veteran from ARR and know the tank role really well. They should know that doing lvl 65+ dungeons in 270 gear is going to force other players to carry them.

I dont actually agree wtih this. If yo uwere 260, I could see that, but 272 isnt in the range of "LoL-hard carry me!" It's not ideal, but yes, you could do stuff at that level without a hard carry as a tank. The tank busters in there will not outright murder you through cool downs and grit. Considering the actions of both the DPS and Healer, (and my own experiences, albeit they are biased), the OP couldve stayed in Grit the entire time, used proper CD use, and with decent use of things from the DPS and healers, it wouldve been fine.

Yeah, the OP couldve been more geared. But Im more in the aspects that theres a LOT of people who wont even use skills like Feint or Palisade (or aggro dumps - I see that a lot too) cause "Youre the tank, you handle this." Im only going by the OPs account. Could very well be the Healers and DPS were blowing every CD they had, but from my experience, thats usually not the case, particularly with people who immediately resort to the iLvL argument.

[Ilan]

PotD allow for classes to level without entering dungeons and seeing that gear. Its a 'backdoor' I guess you could say. You wouldnt likely get to lvl 69 if you were dungeon grinding and still be only at 272 UNLESS you have some pretty huge gear disparities (lvl 285 gear balanced against lvl 260 gear). That could happen, but Im not saying thats likely unless the OP had terrible RNG and no tank gear ever dropped.
...

Well you get at least 1 piece per dungeon 100% so you've either been lazy with your gear before already or you are never checking the stuff that you have in your armory if you are only 272 then.

Yes thats why i wrote that HoH and PotD are something else, you have unique gear in there.

[Ghishlain]

I'm not going to back read 12 pages of responses so I'll just post my thoughts here.

A ilvl 272, you are an extremely squishy tank. Defense and Magic Defense values spiked incredibly after i270.

Shire Body has a defense of 480
Castrum Abania Body has a defense of 868 - this is nearly double the amount of defense.

This isn't to say that rude behavior is acceptable, but honestly it feels like all parties involved need to take a time out and re-evaluate themselves after this adventure. Tank gear has always been an extremely important part of your surviability and S-E double downed on this with SB gear, so I do feel some of the blame is indeed on yourself and your gearing choice.

Yes, you can't control where you go with Leveling Roulette, but you should at least understand your weakness in the roulette if you happen to roll into dungeons you aren't geared properly for too.

[Lorgana]

There's a place for people like this. It's called Heaven on High.

If someone is too lazy to upgrade their gear then they should do everyone a favour and stick to content where gear has no impact.



Absolutely. Even in very low lvl dungeons. I have seen players in Brayflox normal with the lvl 15 novice hall gear equipped. Nearly every time I saw a tank or healer do this the dungeon was impossible to do. One dps can get away with it as long as the rest of the party is geared properly.



While there is definitely an issue with DF this does not absolve OP of all guilt. They harped on about how they're a veteran from ARR and know the tank role really well. They should know that doing lvl 65+ dungeons in 270 gear is going to force other players to carry them.



Either you have been an extremely fortunate healer, or you have never healed.



And having appropriate gear is part of helping the group. If mere mental teamwork was enough to get everyone through the game then gear upgrades wouldn't exist.



Agreed. If people completed the simple task of having appropriate gear for content then threads like this wouldn't exist. It's a problem with a very simple solution.

Really I don’t think any of us need to be getting this passionate about casual content guys. Either way you look at it people are going to do their own stuff. The only thing you can really control is your reaction to it and right now it’s not really looking like we are giving the best the forums have available. Another thing though is that you really shouldn’t be so quick to dogpile people. Regardless of opinion it’s just not cool, this is a diverse and inclusive community and we have to remember to be patient with each other. Don’t worry I’ll make sure to set a positive example for people.

Can’t wait for shadow bringers though! Until that comes out don’t forget to keep going into content to help other people out. No one forget we were all new once. Take time to teach and we will all have a good time.

[Maero]

I am on the side of perhaps get better gear but at the same time i have seen tanks undergeared for level 70 Dungeons in SB and they did fine.
At the same token i have come across so many times that tanks have died because healers were too busy doing dps and not healing, so tank dies> agro goes directly to me and i raise the tank (on My Red Mage) and die.
Honestly there is a very good amount of healers that do more dpsing then healing, it seems like the mentality for some.

[Ilan]

I am on the side of perhaps get better gear but at the same time i have seen tanks undergeared for level 70 Dungeons in SB and they did fine.
At the same token i have come across so many times that tanks have died because healers were too busy doing dps and not healing, so tank dies> agro goes directly to me and i raise the tank (on My Red Mage) and die.
Honestly there is a very good amount of healers that do more dpsing then healing, it seems like the mentality for some.

Tbf some of these healers may just not be used to tanks that are made out of tissue paper.

I honestly never died as a tank because the healer was dpsing and no acceptable tank died on me as a healer when i was dpsing.