SE, the concept of "Limited Jobs" is a really bad idea, turn back now

[Jandor]

No. No it really doesn't. Let me explain why.

Okay, now let's take the typical FFXIV player, give them BLU and then let them loose in DF...

>join duty
>DRK tank, mmkay
>2x BLU because of course
>DRK has Grit up, but only pulling one group at a time
>soon see why
>both BLU are using their basic skills that you get with the job stone
>nothing else
>ask why they aren't using their more powerful skills
>"eh, finding them is too much hard work, I'm going to cap BLU doing roulettes and then go find the skills because it'll be easier"
>"b-b-but the game literally tells you where to get them"
>"eh, I cba with all that, I'm only going to get the massively OP ones"
>reach duty expiry because BLU.

That's pretty weak dude.

Just lock duty finder until certain thresholds are reached on skills.

[Blokeymon]

That's pretty weak dude.

Just lock duty finder until certain thresholds are reached on skills.

So your answer to BLU being locked out of content is to.... lock BLU out of content?

Well, I can't say I disagree, but, uh...

[Jandor]

So your answer to BLU being locked out of content is to.... lock BLU out of content?

Well, I can't say I disagree, but, uh...

Does pretending to be stupid win you many arguments?

[Blokeymon]

Does pretending to be stupid win you many arguments?

You tell me.

You literally just said that the best way to ensure BLU was allowed into DF was to lock DF until they met requirements.

That's literally what you said.

Currently we have only LVL and iLVL restrictions. Now, to allow more freedom for BLU, you want to add a skill restriction?

I'm not sure how many more ways I can repeat what you've just said without it sounding like you just massively contradicted yourself, but you literally just said you think the answer to an already overly-restricted and barrier'd game, is more restrictions.

Literally.

That's not me being stupid.

That's YOU being stupid.

[Jandor]

Wow, that's a lot of words to say "I'm not pretending."

[Blokeymon]

Wow, that's a lot of words to say "I'm not pretending."

Point out to me where I'm an idiot - and I mean, point it out and explain why - and I will concede. I'm an adult. I can accept when I'm wrong, and I often do. But not here, because I'm not.

So point out where I goofed, and explain why.

I'll wait.

Until then, you just continue deflecting the fact you made a boo-boo, but just know that no matter how often you pretend you didn't argue my point for me and that I'm an idiot, doesn't make it so.

[Jandor]

You appear to have somehow arrived at the conclusion that a skill check to use duty finder is just as, if not more, restrictive than just banning them from using duty finder altogether.

[Seraphor]

A skill restriction would solve the "bad Blue Mage being kicked" issue, but it wouldn't solve the balance issue.

Blue Mage is intended to be able to solo the very same dungeons and raids listed in Duty finder.
How do you reconcile things like triple potency of their attacks, or stuff like Lvl5 Death, which is intended to make soloing things like Primals possible, with being able to dutyfind those very same duties?

Premade and undersized parties are one thing, anything goes there, but joining a bunch of randoms with an instant win button or a steamrolling option?

[Blokeymon]

You appear to have somehow arrived at the conclusion that a skill check to use duty finder is just as, if not more, restrictive than just banning them from using duty finder altogether.

Ah, okay, that's reasonable enough. I get what you mean now, and I can see where you're coming from, but that's kinda not the argument I was trying to put across - but thanks for being honest and straightforward, honestly.

Where I was coming from was a point of "people here seem to be either on the 'let BLU be a class like the rest' and 'BLU needs to be its own thing' side of the coin, and I'm on the latter because DF will suffer."

Almost every argument I've seen arguing for BLU in DF tend to scream "restriction" above all else, and I guess I took your comment to be both on the side of BLU and more restrictions which, as I said, would have been contradictory given my past experiences with other pro-BLUs.

In hindsight, I agree that required skills for dungeons would be a good idea, and would go someway to preventing bads from crapping up DF. But I guarantee people would STILL complain.

Personally speaking, I am absolutely all about the new BLU, because it's about time we had something that wasn't just "another caster". This is a whole new thing, like crafting and gathering is to combat. It could lead to a whole slew of new content, like Beastmaster, Puppermaster, and more besides. Hell, I'd even accept having BLU be able to join ANY AND EVERY duty once 100%'d.

But as it stands, given the very two different sides of the BLU coin, and given the playerbase, it is as it needs to be.

But again, thanks for the feedback, and appreciate it. Apologies also for being a bit of a dick. I see you're a fellow Cerberite, so if you see me running around Limsa pretending to be Willy Wonka and offering tours of my chocolate factory, consider your tour a free one. :3

[Blueyes]

I prefer to not think of it as two sides that are in opposition to each other, even if that is the harsh reality of the situation. I would prefer to see players working together on this.

If I had to state my stance, it's in opposition to Limited Jobs, but I say that because I believe just about everything there is to like about Limited Jobs, such as an emphasis on solo capability, a new solo instance, a unique way to acquire actions, and branching beyond the established cookie-cutter formula, all of that can coexist alongside a job that is balanced for end game. That is what I believe. I won't argue that balancing a job like that would be easy, but I don't regard it as an impossible task.

So that is my stance. For those that like Limited Jobs, I don't want the good things about it to be taken away. I just want those who wish to see Blue Mage as a balanced job that can access all content to get what they want too. It won't be an easy feat. It's not a goal that can be achieved in the near future, but it's what we should strive for.