getting kicked from end game pfs as soon as I join?

[Makeda]

This notion bad FFlog parses will lead to wanton kicks from pug groups is a boogeyman created by bad players trying to deflect responsibility. It simply doesn't happen. At least not with any regularity. The only time your FFlogs page may be held against you is if you're joining weekly clear parties and have never parsed above 20%.

I have no fflogs here, which is a good thing as a returning player trying to master a new role for a job I just hit 70 on 2 days ago...

But I am coming from WoW so Inhave experience with a log site giving me two ends of this mess.

I oicked their recent expansion to finally try DPS for the first time ever on the survival hunter... a class with extreme “job bias” (imagine if for 5.0 they swapped half the abilities of bard and dragoon and made a new melee/ranged dps hybrid out of it).

New class, new role, new raid group, new server... my logs sucked at first. I got a subtle “you will be moved to the backup list” warning. I chose to leave while other things were pleasant. I found a new static the same day by chance. In the few days between one raid showing me the door and the other starting I figured out my rotation and joined the new guys as their consistently top DPS and we even cleared past the other raid after 2 weeks (comparing my data with info from the other raid’s off tank; both of us having known each other).

Now... if my logs from raid group 1 had been public I would never have gotten my spot in raid 2. Given my choice of class every group I joined over in WoW had to begin with a “the class doesn’t suck as bad as you think, just let me try it” - the bias against it was extreme but is starting to fall off... add to that logs which only showed me as “sometimes above the healers” it was bad...

But with private logs, group 2 just gave me a chance... my rotation problem turned out to be trivial (the equiv of using ninja with the wrong mudra while wearing caster gear, as easy to fix as using the right ones and right setup - in WoW terms the actual fix I made was two talents swapped and proper weaving of Mongoose Bite, a melee stab, and a ranged aoe grenade skill. My gear was actually the right stuff but a bad talent in WoW can be as severe as the wrong gear here)...

Now I have all these stellar logs for the same toon. Earned them... but had the logs that got me booted from the first group been public, I might never have been able to get into that second static...

Now...

What happens when a player who was in learning groups and started bad, is now skilled, and tries to move up?

Do that hey have this albatross of fflogs from when they were in those learning groups still following then forward?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

snip

Actually, you got into the second group because they elected not to ask about your logs. Which is fine as it's entirely their prerogative. If they had asked, you would either have had to explain your lack of experience at the time or lied. This entire scenario could easily have played out the same regardless of your logs being public.

As for a new player trying show their improvement. That will be represented in their logs. Even with pugs, you can parse all the way to orange depending on the group and your own experience. Afterwards, you look for a static comparable to your current skill level. Plenty of groups will take on someone less experienced because they, themselves, aren't either. This only becomes an issue if you aren't showing any improvement whatsoever or you're seeking to jump into better groups and don't have the numbers to show for it. In that case, they may reject you, which they are within their right to do. All you can do from that point is keep trying.

[Ilan]

I'm kind of ambivalent about FFlogs anyway. On one hand, I can understand why someone running savage-level raids would want to know the general skills of the players in their party. For PF though it seems kind of like overkill.

On the other hand, that's MY data that I didn't give anyone permission to use. I don't like that just a facet of your performance can be ripped out of your hands like that and uploaded for the world to see without you having any say in it.

OP I'm not sure what to tell you.. there have been times when people get kicked because the raid leader's friend is on and they want to get them a clear or something like that. Nothing personal to you, but that doesn't make it sting any less, I know. I main SAM on my main character too so if I got kicked JUST for being a SAM, well, it's their loss.

In which world is something that is listed in every battlelog of your parties YOUR data? This is like saying that everything you write in all chats is YOUR data too. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Moonlite]

In which world is something that is listed in every battlelog of your parties YOUR data? This is like saying that everything you write in all chats is YOUR data too. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Look at it this way. If SE had wanted everyone to know their data they would have put a tool in that allows that. Not enough info to tell if this was the cause of the OPs problem.



But that scenario definitely falls into the "don't ask, don't tell" situation. If it was happening regularly and SE stance on harassment. Players could be looking at some game wide unwanted repercussions.

[whiskeybravo]

This notion bad FFlog parses will lead to wanton kicks from pug groups is a boogeyman created by bad players trying to deflect responsibility. It simply doesn't happen. At least not with any regularity.

With regularity being the caveat, even I have participated in kicking gray SAMs out of my PFs. Multiple times. BLM too. Like, if you got 8 kills of o9s but aren't even breaking 5k as a SAM or BLM - You just got carried. Now I don't always kick people, it depends what friends I'm running with because some are more hardcore than others. It depends if we're trying to farm or just trying to clear (like weekly clears on alt characters).

Due consideration, IMO someone that's pugging every week is a lot worse off because I know the kinda bs things that can go wrong in a pug environment, so it may not always be their fault. But, I also know that good players can still perform at a high level even in a bad group. Just have to judge on a case by case basis.

As for hiding logs.. IDK I'd probably give them the benefit of the doubt for a couple of pulls at least, but in general I think you'd only hide them if you had something to hide, so it can be a red flag for people.

What happens when a player who was in learning groups and started bad, is now skilled, and tries to move up?

Do that hey have this albatross of fflogs from when they were in those learning groups still following then forward?

I think it can. But, if you display a fair amount of confidence in yourself, and willingness to take advice and improve, and then actually follow through with it, it will generally work out fine. My static SMN started out rather middle of the road, but I gave her a chance because I wanted a SMN for our caster spot, and now 2 raid cycles later she's consistently the highest DPS in the group. It's not always going to work out, of course, but if you're determined to make it happen then you got a good shot of getting there.

[Andevom]

In which world is something that is listed in every battlelog of your parties YOUR data? This is like saying that everything you write in all chats is YOUR data too. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I mean, I don't know if I agree with that analogy. Would you be thrilled if there was an archive online of every single chat you've had in game, and people could look you up by name to see what you were talking about?

[Ilan]

Look at it this way. If SE had wanted everyone to know their data they would have put a tool in that allows that. Not enough info to tell if this was the cause of the OPs problem.



But that scenario definitely falls into the "don't ask, don't tell" situation. If it was happening regularly and SE stance on harassment. Players could be looking at some game wide unwanted repercussions.

There is already a tool, called BATTLELOG. Its just that it would be way to much work to read it out properly, thats what the parser does and fflogs is just keeping record of what happened in the fight.

But what i find way more interesting is that most people share literally everything on socialmedia but they almost start a riot when people see how they do in a videogame.

@Andevom if you read correctly what i wrote you would've seen that i was strictly refering to the chat everyone can see. If i write something in the All, Shout, Party or Yell chat i know that everyone can see it and i don't really care if people could look up what i wrote in there, just like i don't care if people see my logs or not. Nothing of that is somewhere near MY private data, its stuff from a videogame and nothing more.

[Dzian]

In which world is something that is listed in every battlelog of your parties YOUR data? This is like saying that everything you write in all chats is YOUR data too. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The world we all live in. GDPR

What constitutes personal data?
The GDPR applies to ‘personal data’, meaning any information relating to an identifiable person who can be directly or indirectly identified in particular by reference to an identifier. This definition provides for a wide range of personal identifiers to constitute personal data, including name, identification number, location data or online identifier, reflecting changes in technology and the way organisations collect information about people.

so yeah pretty much anything i say in the chat log is personal data. just the same as any post i make on facebook is personal data... anyhting that can be referenced to an identifiable individual is considered personal data.

so technically fflogs is in breach of GDPR as its using identifiable information without consent. and thus should be anonymised for anyone who has not Opted-In

[Ilan]

The world we all live in. GDPR



so yeah pretty much anything i say in the chat log is personal data. just the same as any post i make on facebook is personal data... anyhting that can be referenced to an identifiable individual is considered personal data

Yeah uhm how do logs identify you as a person? Logs only show what you did with your pixels in a game. Your real identity is no where listed there.

[Dzian]

Yeah uhm how do logs identify you as a person? Logs only show what you did with your pixels in a game. Your real identity is no where listed there.

What constitutes personal data?
The GDPR applies to ‘personal data’, meaning any information relating to an identifiable person who can be directly or indirectly identified in particular by reference to an identifier. This definition provides for a wide range of personal identifiers to constitute personal data, including name, identification number, location data or online identifier, reflecting changes in technology and the way organisations collect information about people.

bolded it for you. (your characters name is an identifier)