BLU for Duty Finder and Raids! Show your support!

[Bacent]

So you would be unhappy if other people got what they wanted even if SE still updated blue mage and the Carnival as they already said they will be? Why? I'm on the side the "outrage side" and the reasons you stated are valid reasons for us to be unhappy.

Do you just not want this to change because "not everything has to be for everyone" or is there another reason? That first one would be a very immature reason to be unhappy if SE tried to compromise.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I would be unhappy if they took anything away with how they promised it in solo content thus far, if it was made for 'everyone to do everything' with it and lost what they were trying to do. I thought I was being careful with my words, but you seemed to have twisted them around.

And please pay attention where I specifically said this highlighted bit.

I wouldn't be happy if they split Blu into solo and raid content like so many people are demanding, before it's even seen in full.

I'm a bit miffed that many people are throwing Blu under the bus because it's so different compared to what we've had existing since day one.

Though I still stand by my words of 'not everything has to be for everyone'. A lot of people never touch crafting or gathering. And many people don't touch most classes outside of 1-2 for raid/their personal preference for just everyday/casual stuff. And just like all other classes Blu will not be something everyone will touch as well.

I'm not saying people can't have their own opinions, but I think it's being thrown way out of scope with how much hate there is for SE daring to attempt something new. If game companies didn't do that, everything would be just the same thing under a different costume.

And I wouldn't be unhappy if they split Blu to do solo/everything else content, but I wouldn't be as happy if they changed their designs before we got to see what they came up with. So please don't twist my words to try to make it look like I'm saying something rather bitter.

[jon041065]

Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I would be unhappy if they took anything away with how they promised it in solo content thus far, if it was made for 'everyone to do everything' with it and lost what they were trying to do. I thought I was being careful with my words, but you seemed to have twisted them around.

I didn't twist things around or at least not intentionally. That's why I was asked those questions to see what you meant. Maybe I wasn't clear as well.

I'm a bit miffed that many people are throwing Blu under the bus because it's so different compared to what we've had existing since day one.

Though I still stand by my words of 'not everything has to be for everyone'. A lot of people never touch crafting or gathering. And many people don't touch most classes outside of 1-2 for raid/their personal preference for just everyday/casual stuff. And just like all other classes Blu will not be something everyone will touch as well.

I'm not saying people can't have their own opinions, but I think it's being thrown way out of scope with how much hate there is for SE daring to attempt something new. If game companies didn't do that, everything would be just the same thing under a different costume.

And I wouldn't be unhappy if they split Blu to do solo/everything else content, but I wouldn't be as happy if they changed their designs before we got to see what they came up with. So please don't twist my words to try to make it look like I'm saying something rather bitter.

The fact is that it could have amazing and challenging solo content but that wouldn't make up for the inability to play the job in current content with our friends. Hopefully that will change.

I thought asking you questions so that it would be clear to me (maybe others as well) what your stance was in your response to my post would be helpful. If I actually just assumed your stance then I would have skipped the questions and focused my post on how immature that stance would have been. So I'll apologize for my part in the confusion created by our lasts posts.

Have you taken a look at this thread yet? http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...o-i-play-wrong

What are your thoughts to what myself and some others discussed for how we think the game could change for the better?

[Bacent]

So I'll apologize for my part in the confusion created by our lasts posts.

Have you taken a look at this thread yet? http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...o-i-play-wrong

What are your thoughts to what myself and some others discussed for how we think the game could change for the better?

I apologize as well for the confusion on my part. And I have taken a look at that thread before, and I'll quote a post there.

Blue mage does not sound like it will be executed well at all. It sounds lazy. I don't think "balancing issues" is a worthwhile excuse at all. This is an mmorpg. If next expansion would just be a level cap increase and 2 new skills, there are too many as it is. In my honest opinion the next step forward would be like what you suggest, having to choose one skill over another, gear sets that specialize in specific things, etc. Make progression less linear. They don't have to have super weapons, or armor as gearsets or item bonuses.

Blue Mage will have 49 spells to learn. We are to choose 24 of them for combat at any one time.

You will get to pick one skill over another to use at that time. This could possibly be the start of some branching skill paths we may or may not get down the line with other experimental classes.

If we were to get a class that's able to switch gear sets to make things less linear, that honestly sounds like something that Onion Knight might be able to do down the line, if it's put into the game.

There are also some players that weren't around in early 2.X, or even at all, and didn't see some of the terrible balancing we originally had (Smn's dots not spreading, Sch not getting pro-shell, Blms being too good as a mage DPS and smns not getting any want in groups), and that had existed in every expac cycle we've had, but they're making it better.

We still don't know what this fully entails for future classes that aren't part of the normal trinity of classes, but is it so bad to let them do an experiment that could open up MUCH more for other 'full' classes in the not-so-near future? If Blu does well in being handled, they could try to apply other side story stuff to other classes, and maybe make Blu a 'full' class as well, in the future, and if handled right.


TL;DR - Let them do what they had planned for Blu first. Let it be the experiment that could define future content that would not only apply to newer jobs that may or may not be limited, but possibly opening more doors for current classes to get their own kind of solo content in the future that everyone could enjoy. This is the Blu that I want to see. If it falls short because of forcing into 'normal' content too quickly, I won't be too happy with it.

[jon041065]

snip

Yep, I still remember the days of brd being best raiding job and people switching to wanting paladins instead of warriors after leveling was done.

I feel that most on my side do hope that the open world and Carnival content does well. We just want "limited jobs" to fail. To me, that means that SE will hopefully see that they had a lot of people that were enjoying the game already and that they had some misses with side content for people that wanted things other than endgame. Then they see the Carnival do well and that leads them to putting resources towards content like that and getting a better focus on where to target their experiments. That they also see that those of us that were already enjoying the game don't want limited jobs and they fix that issue. Hopefully ending up with a better overall game for MORE players and less of a game that focuses on one group then swaps which group gets the focus.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

Yep, I still remember the days of brd being best raiding job and people switching to wanting paladins instead of warriors after leveling was done.

I feel that most on my side do hope that the open world and Carnival content does well. We just want "limited jobs" to fail. To me, that means that SE will hopefully see that they had a lot of people that were enjoying the game already and that they had some misses with side content for people that wanted things other than endgame. Then they see the Carnival do well and that leads them to putting resources towards content like that and getting a better focus on where to target their experiments. That they also see that those of us that were already enjoying the game don't want limited jobs and they fix that issue. Hopefully ending up with a better overall game for MORE players and less of a game that focuses on one group then swaps which group gets the focus.

Except you can't do Carnival without doing a limited job. So if Carnival does well, so will limited jobs. It will be like Eureka: "Well, if people are running Eureka just for the relic, that means Eureka is doing well". Therefore for SE, "If people are running BLU just for the Carnival, that means limited jobs are doing well."

[BillyKaplan]

Except you can't do Carnival without doing a limited job.

While that was completely not the intended design, I will liken Carnival and BLU to Palace of the Dead and RDM. RDM is more or less the only job that can reliably make it that down, and as far as I know, the only job who cleared it. PotD is RDM's solo experience, its own Masked Carnival. And it can perform well enough in all other forms of content. PotD is all the better an example because PotD caps you at 60, while RDM right now is at current 70 cap and will rise to 80 comes ShB.
There is nothing stopping them from pursuing a similar design, this time intentionally, with BLU, or any job they wish to introduce in the future with a similar system. Hell, I actually join people who say to give all jobs something like that. It awards the people who already play the job, and lures people who don't at the same time. Plus, more content, which is what we're all into.

So if Carnival does well, so will limited jobs. It will be like Eureka:

And if it doesn't, they'll just put something a lot of people want behind it, like they did with Eureka. It's successful for all the wrong reasons and there will be a time where no matter the carrot, people will refuse to ride the treadmill. This is all the truer for BLU where by definition they can't put something truly relevant to other jobs behind Masked Carnival. Eureka at least catered to all jobs. Carnival doesn't.

"If people are running BLU just for the Carnival, that means limited jobs are doing well."

To be fair, given what BLU is right now, there is no other "definition of success" available. Though I'd say it's BLU that's doing well, not limited jobs. For one, we only have the one right now. Second, there's no guarantee that even if they introduced more limited jobs in the future that they'd follow similar success.

[jon041065]

Except you can't do Carnival without doing a limited job. So if Carnival does well, so will limited jobs. It will be like Eureka: "Well, if people are running Eureka just for the relic, that means Eureka is doing well". Therefore for SE, "If people are running BLU just for the Carnival, that means limited jobs are doing well."

Did you just read a few words of my post and then replied? The Carnival itself can do well and show SE another successful form of side content they can make like they have with deep dungeons and avoid making more things like Diadem. The Carnival doing well doesn't translate to "jobs that we rather not balance to make work in the full game so will put them in the own special box in the game" is a good idea.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

Did you just read a few words of my post and then replied? The Carnival itself can do well and show SE another successful form of side content they can make like they have with deep dungeons and avoid making more things like Diadem. The Carnival doing well doesn't translate to "jobs that we rather not balance to make work in the full game so will put them in the own special box in the game" is a good idea.

You can't do Carnival without BLU. If Carnival will be doing well, that means BLU adoption rates are high. Which is a success for BLU in SE's book.

If somehow most of the playerbase boycotts BLU, Carnival will barely be ran. Which will make SE consider BLU a failure, because people both haven't unlocked BLU and ran Carnival.

Carnival success is tied inexorably to BLU success. Even if people pull an Eureka with BLU and just get BLU solely to run Carnival, it won't be considered just a successful Carnival but also a successful BLU.

[Skyskip]

TL;DR - Let them do what they had planned for Blu first. Let it be the experiment that could define future content that would not only apply to newer jobs that may or may not be limited, but possibly opening more doors for current classes to get their own kind of solo content in the future that everyone could enjoy. This is the Blu that I want to see. If it falls short because of forcing into 'normal' content too quickly, I won't be too happy with it.

There is no way I'm going to sit down quietly and let them roll this out without a fight. It simply cannot satisfy me in it's current state, not until it's playable in all content that other jobs are capable of. No amount of 'waiting to see what happens' is going to change that.

[Elerus]

There is no way I'm going to sit down quietly and let them roll this out without a fight. It simply cannot satisfy me in it's current state, not until it's playable in all content that other jobs are capable of. No amount of 'waiting to see what happens' is going to change that.

Exactly. As customers it really behooves one to provide feedback on a product. I don't think anyone here has been unreasonable. I've not seen a single "fire all the people" post or such nonsense. People wanting BLU to change are even proposing solutions and compromises. Compared to the average League of Legends thread the overall rhetoric is frankly saintly. Granted that's not a particularly high bar but I've been pleasantly surprised as the discuss has been ongoing.