Blue Mage: Are you kidding me!?

[jon041065]

Sorry for the late reply, I was a bit occupied.

The problem is that things escalate rapidly, there are the good and the bad with everything however. But the example you gave is exactly a prime example of what salt can do with a person. If you have visited Pyros recently, it is a hobby of people who didn't get a bunny to kill the bunnies of people who did get one.

Since from what I understood from the panel in the Q&A, it seems that only one BLU can learn said spell. If he has learned it it can't be learned anymore from the same mob. This may of course be me misunderstanding what was said or if something got lost in translation. But it was suggested that people would make a PF to learn the ability from a trial like Shiva, and then it would be like people would go on a different job to help the BLU and then switch around so everyone would be able to get the spell.

So if its only one BLU, imagen the salt possibilities.

And ofcourse we are giving them the funds to pay for the development of the content, but its not like we are buying the content either. I know its a bit weird, but in truth you just upgrade your license every time an expansion hits to access more content and then you extend it with a subscription. In the long run this point is kind of moot to discuss any further.

Things can escalate quickly but is the solution to just lock people out of matchmaking? They could just beef up the punishments for ToS violations to have an even larger deterrent. I'm really against them going beyond things in the ToS so I'm in favor of a player driven solution. That could be something ugly like "player shaming" but I would prefer something like SE giving us cross world linkshells that have a HUGE cap on how many can be in. Something like ten thousand or more. Then put a DF option in the settings "only match with community members". Then people that have worries with using matchmaking could only be matched with people in their communities they have chosen to be in.

Oh yeah, if it was only one blue that could learn a spell off a mob at a time it would be a catastrophe. I know on XI it was just a random chance per blue mage with no cap. I'm thinking you misunderstood during the live letter. As for that Shiva example, pretty sure they meant people taking turns hoping on their level 70s to solo/duo the primals in the event if they weren't able to complete the fight as an all blu party.

You worded it better but that was what I was trying to get at. We are providing the funding to make the content by buying access to the product instead of straight up buying the product. It all comes down to the wording like I said and you got a lot closer to it than I did. lol

[Darkpaw]

Things can escalate quickly but is the solution to just lock people out of matchmaking? They could just beef up the punishments for ToS violations to have an even larger deterrent. I'm really against them going beyond things in the ToS so I'm in favor of a player driven solution. That could be something ugly like "player shaming" but I would prefer something like SE giving us cross world linkshells that have a HUGE cap on how many can be in. Something like ten thousand or more. Then put a DF option in the settings "only match with community members". Then people that have worries with using matchmaking could only be matched with people in their communities they have chosen to be in.

Oh yeah, if it was only one blue that could learn a spell off a mob at a time it would be a catastrophe. I know on XI it was just a random chance per blue mage with no cap. I'm thinking you misunderstood during the live letter. As for that Shiva example, pretty sure they meant people taking turns hoping on their level 70s to solo/duo the primals in the event if they weren't able to complete the fight as an all blu party.

You worded it better but that was what I was trying to get at. We are providing the funding to make the content by buying access to the product instead of straight up buying the product. It all comes down to the wording like I said and you got a lot closer to it than I did. lol

-points to gil sellers- yes because they do so well dealing with those ToS violations, or the RMTs running wild for clearing content just sitting in their duty finder advertising their services. So in order to facilitate blue mage we need to come up with an entirely new support system for duty finder, completely rework the CWLS to hold a massive amount of people and increase server load by who knows how much. Just to support blue mage. That's way more work then it's worth. We have very little say on what content comes out or how it comes out because we do pay for the service. And yes while our subs and our purchases off mog station help fund this game. This is not a crowd sourced game. The Dev Team and SE holds all the calls in how they spend that money and what content they want to create. While they try to appease us players they do not have to. They can make whatever they like. locking out of roulettes and matchmaking with the current learn system makes sense. for better or worse it is the most logical decision to make to avoid a huge number of potential problems.

[Shiroe]

We aren't arguing with how it plays just the announced restrictions.

how it plays is the reason for the restrictions...

otherwise Blue Mage wouldn't play as intended (damn near impossible) but be allowed in regular content

[jon041065]

how it plays is the reason for the restrictions...

otherwise Blue Mage wouldn't play as intended (damn near impossible) but be allowed in regular content

There are definitely ways to have made blu as it is right now without the unreasonable restriction.

Unlock the job for the full game after finishing the Carnival, achievements for learning spells within a level range that unlock matchmaking for those levels, and bring back level break quests from XI for blue mage that require certain spells before you can do the quest. The npc(s) wouldn't even have to tell you exactly what the spells are. "Hmm, you still need to study leafkin in the northshroud, the insects in central thanalan, and the crustaceans in lower la noscea" would work.

[Huntrss]

The only Restriction I don't like is Deep Dungeons and the Level set at 50. besides that it's ok that we can't PVP. we could go back and forth on Duty Finder all day but we will Live.

[Mithia]

Things can escalate quickly but is the solution to just lock people out of matchmaking? They could just beef up the punishments for ToS violations to have an even larger deterrent. I'm really against them going beyond things in the ToS so I'm in favor of a player driven solution. That could be something ugly like "player shaming" but I would prefer something like SE giving us cross world linkshells that have a HUGE cap on how many can be in. Something like ten thousand or more. Then put a DF option in the settings "only match with community members". Then people that have worries with using matchmaking could only be matched with people in their communities they have chosen to be in.

The problem with player solutions is that they always bottle down to naming and shaming. There is little else you can do because you don't have the power of removal or ban or even a discussion. A big channel works nice in theory, but there are about 5000 players on one server, so how big must this linkshell become to accommodate all players? And some players would be out of the loop of this aswell since not everyone visits the forums/reddit/discord etc. However I'm sure there will be a dedicated BLU discord popping up out there...

However we have to see it from SE their perspective aswell, they are all for players working together and sharing information, but they loath player shaming/bashing (such as that you can't link ACT in chat). So its really simple, they limit you on DF because there is no clear leader in said groups and people join DF for exp/tokens/MSQ. So there is no right or wrong when a player wants a specific thing from said dungeon, but neither did people sign up to accommodate someone else their needs. But organised groups do not have that problem because the leader creates the group with a specific goal in mind, be it loot/logs/grind a specific boss or mob.

Oh yeah, if it was only one blue that could learn a spell off a mob at a time it would be a catastrophe. I know on XI it was just a random chance per blue mage with no cap. I'm thinking you misunderstood during the live letter. As for that Shiva example, pretty sure they meant people taking turns hoping on their level 70s to solo/duo the primals in the event if they weren't able to complete the fight as an all blu party.

Well its hard to say, I hope I'm wrong but we can't be to sure either. Hence it would be prudent to wait for the release of BLU so we can give feedback on what is actually there and not what is speculated right now.

You worded it better but that was what I was trying to get at. We are providing the funding to make the content by buying access to the product instead of straight up buying the product. It all comes down to the wording like I said and you got a lot closer to it than I did. lol

Sure we are providing the funds, but think of it like you are buying an album from a musical artist. You won't dictate either what should be in it or not... you let them be creative and then you judge if you continue to support them or not.

The only Restriction I don't like is Deep Dungeons and the Level set at 50. besides that it's ok that we can't PVP. we could go back and forth on Duty Finder all day but we will Live.

Its normal they would put a limitation on Deep Dungeons for now, there is prestige in running it solo. BLU would just crush that. That and we are limited to 50, DD's go up to 60 or 70.
Regarding the limitation on levels, well the content currently isn't designed for BLU. I don't think it would be as simple as just changing a line of code to make the boss invulnerable to certain spells. There could be some serious bugs that come with it. Its not worth the risk, just let them update it all with 5.0.

[jon041065]

snip

Agreed with you a lot so just going to hit on a few things.

I'm not fond of any solution to this problem besides "if they are worried about matchmaking then use PF". That's really SE should tell people instead of locking the rest of us out of DF. I was trying to think of player driven solutions so thought the communities thing could work. I believe I said something like 10k would be a good idea and I don't mean that it would just a free for all chat. Be something more like joining a discord server with chat channels that are set up by the owner/mods. Some players will always be out of the loop but can't have that limit design.

Everything you said in that second paragraph is fine besides that I don't think it's SE place to solve. It's as you said, there is no true leader in DF that dictates what everyone has to do. If people have an issue with any given group then they should work it out, put up with it, or leave and try again or form a premade party.

There is definitely no point on speculating on the job's mechanics like you said until there's more info. Maybe it has no native traits and it depends on which spells you set like it did on XI. I will disagree that we have to wait to voice our disappointment that the proposed limitations are fine or have the potential to be okay depending on the Carnival content. People on my side will always want to have the job function in the full game.

No arguments on the album analogy.

Again, I agree with you. Just upping the level cap won't work and you gave some good reasons why. The design of blu won't be easily changed. That's why a lot on my side have stated that we are fine waiting even if it takes till the 6.0 expac.

Do want to thank you for the calm debate. Community needs more like you. Maybe we can get to the middle ground eventually.

[Mithia]

snip

I don't think the game should be designed towards the ones who are willing to be part of a community, its not proper design and you'd be surprised how many people can be out of the loop with things. One of the main reasons why modern MMO's thrive is because it caters towards the little man, it will create systems such as DF, PF, tutorials, the pop up for when you enter a zone that you still lack an achievement there and much more. If a player is out of the loop he will hit a wall, walls are frustrating. A frustrated player will unsub in the end if he can't overcome that wall. Hence the game is designed to accommodate all players and everything can be easily accessed.

The problem with leaving a DF is that you immediately get punished for it with a 30 minute lockout. People generally don't want this, hence they want to either get kicked or vote for an abandon. Having people work it out sounds nice in theory and I'd like to see this happen aswell. However I've often seen a question asked or also asked a question myself, and the usual responses are either nothing, or one guy trying to be helpful while others are meme'ing.

And then it makes you wonder why people can't be adults but then you realize that its a game for children in the end...

In addition you get compensated for not being able to use DF with exp bonuses in the outside world, where you will be for the majority of times to get your skills. So either way this is fine and if you really want to use DF with your friends you'll just have to go on a different job for now.


I do enjoy this discussion aswell, who knows maybe we will find one!

[Meta-Flare]

I still would rather not have the class than it being added as is. That goes for all limited jobs. They are paid to figure this kind of stuff out and make it work in their current system.

[Starcake28]

Ya thy can balance it if thy put time into it