Don't like Blue Mage? Here is how to convince SE to change it...

[Fyce]

BLU is a JOB. A Battle Class Job.

No. BLU is a Limited Job. There's a reason they didn't simply call it a "Job". Words have meanings.

No battle class job should be relegated to side content when the 80-90% of the game is about battle related content.

A Job and a Limited Job don't do the same things. And there's no rule saying that SE cannot create Limited Jobs. Besides, you have absolutly no authority in saying what a playable class can or cannot do.

If BLU was some form of crafter or gatherer no one would blink an eye at this being side content.

Wrong. Some people would complain. There are ALWAYS some people complaining.

What about summoner? It's NOTHING like what a summoner use to be. Should it be reworked and made into a limited job?

Nobody is talking about a rework. BLU isn't a rework. But yes, some people do think that SMN may have been a good contenter to be a Limited Job, if it wasn't already in the game as it is.

Look at how they did RDM. It was great they way they worked it in. I never would have thought RDM would have a balancing act between White and Black Mana to empower melee attacks.

Yes, RDM does plays well. But it has objectively lost a lot of its iconic identity and toolkit in order to fit the mold. FFXIV's Red Mage is it's own thing. Nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't mean that BLU -or any other FF Class/Job- has to follow the same pattern.

They could have found some way to incorporate learning skills from mobs, and giving it a mechanic to keep the job interesting, while making it a real job.

Could they? Probably. Did they want to? Obviously not. Possible doesn't mean desirable. And if you don't respect their creative freedom and their right to do whatever the heck they want to do with their game and their franchise, then you might as well quit right now. You are not entitled to anything, you do not work for them, and you have no authority to tell them what they can do or not.

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Edit: I didn't want to start a quote war, mind you, but almost everything you said in your post was either false or inaccurate. I had little choice but to pick every argument individually.

[jon041065]

Here's the thing though, they can't please everyone. No matter how many wannabe smart people are saying that SE is lazy, or "they could have done X, Y, Z!". You will ALWAYS have people complaining.
And if you think that they are not trying to please as much people as possible, then you are delusional, because they obviously do.

It's a theme park MMORPG. Different content is made to appeal to a different type of players all the time. And this time, BLU wasn't made to please your type. That's it. Just deal with it. You're free to ask for more, but don't become entitled, because nobody is. "BLU mains" are no exception.

Never said they could please everyone. This feels like instead of taking the time to please A LOT more people overall, that they decided that they would boost the chance of the "open world and side content meant to boost sub retention before 5.0" working by shoehorning blue mage into it. FFXIV since ARR has been designed a certain way with a few tweaks for better or worse here and there but retained the same base idea. This iteration of blue mage is totally different compared to the past jobs in good and in bad ways. My side just wishes they would compromise so that the bad parts were removed or reduced greatly and we are willing to wait for this. That we hope SE realizes that altering a big part of their traditional content is not a good thing BUT that they do see that people are excited for the open world and Carnival side content so that a better game can be made. Sacrificing how jobs have worked in the game for five years is not the way to get there. Adding content to let us do MORE, not less, is the right way.

[Fyce]

Never said they could please everyone. This feels like instead of taking the time to please A LOT more people overall, that they decided that they would boost the chance of the "open world and side content meant to boost sub retention before 5.0" working by shoehorning blue mage into it. FFXIV since ARR has been designed a certain way as has the Diablo franchise with a few tweaks for better or worse here and there but retained the same base idea. This iteration of blue mage is totally different compared to the past jobs in good and in bad ways same as diablo mobile. My side just wishes they would compromise so that the bad parts were removed or reduced greatly and we are willing to wait for this.

Of course everyone would wish for the best of two worlds. But the issue is that some people don't understand that's not always possible. For a bazillion of different reasons.

... And please stop comparing Blue Mage to Diablo Immortal. That's ridiculous. SE is not trying to get to a brand new market by pissing off their entire established community. They are simply filling their theme park MMORPG with yet again another different kind of content. The fact that a good part of the community welcomes BLU as it is completly contradict this comparison. Lots of people already like solo content in FFXIV.

[jon041065]

I said the only real difference between comparing the two is in the scale of how many hate the idea.

They are similar in that they are not making the "product" for those that have liked the previous offerings for the most part and instead for people that haven't. That's not necessarily a bad thing but it is when it's done this way and with something as requested as blue mage.

There are many reasons but they weren't the ones they gave during the live letter for why blue mage has to be restricted like this.

[Fyce]

I said the only real difference between comparing the two is in the scale of how many hate the idea.


They are similar in that they are not making the "product" for those that have liked the previous offerings for the most part and instead for people that haven't. That's not necessarily a bad thing but it is when it's done this way and with something as requested as blue mage.

There are many reasons but they weren't the ones they gave during the live letter for why blue mage has to be restricted like this.

BLU was pretty much requested only because it's a weirdo. Nobody would say that they like BLU because "it's like any other job". It's the very specific gameplay and identity that people like the most. And SE specifically said that weirdos like this wouldn't fit the mold. It's easy to understand why (well, I guess not for some people).

And no, "the scale of how many hate the idea" is definitly not the only difference between Diablo Immortal and Blue Mage. But I already said why and what was different, so I won't repeat myself yet again. Continue thinking that if you want, but I strongly disagree with this argument and opinion. It has no value to me aside from trying to bank on a recent meme.

Edit: And since I don't see this conversation going anywhere -like pretty much everything said in every recent BLU thread-, I'll stop there.

[jon041065]

BLU was pretty much only requested because it's a weirdo. And SE specifically said that weirdos like this wouldn't fit the mold. It's easy to understand why.

And no, "the scale of how many hate the idea" is definitly not the only difference between the two. But I already said why and what was different, so I won't repeat myself yet again. Continue thinking that if you want, but I strongly disagree with this argument and opinion. It has no value to me aside from trying to bank on a recent meme.

Barely saw people requesting blue mage because of it being "a weirdo" and wanting it to be in the game as one. You do what you said as well then "continue thinking that if you want". Most requests were for a XIV job that uses enemy abilities and I didn't see any that were asking for this AND it have restrictions on what it was allowed to do in game.

I said that to us on my side, it is pretty dam similar. Have I used any of the DI memes when debating this?

[Fyce]

Barely saw people requesting blue mage because of it being "a weirdo" and wanting it to be in the game as one. Most requests were for a XIV job that uses enemy abilities and I didn't see any that were asking for this AND it have restrictions on what it was allowed to do in game.

Just check any thread speaking about Blue Mage after the 2014 Q&A. People definitly do care about BLU's identity.

[jon041065]

Just check any thread speaking about Blue Mage after the 2014 Q&A.

I have since I've been wanting blue mage since 2013. Most posts in response to Yoshi saying blue mage had to be that way were in disagreement with that notion.

[Fyce]

I have since I've been wanting blue mage since 2013. Most posts in response to Yoshi saying blue mage had to be that way were in disagreement with that notion.

Then if you think that most people were in favor of the job being shoehorned to fit the mold, you've not been looking hard enough, because I can see countless counter-examples. People actually understood and recognized that it was a weird job to make fit in FFXIV, and some of them even gave a lot of suggestions to try and break the current system because it was too restrictive.
While people ovbiously didn't want it to be "limited" (no one is arguing against that), they also didn't want its identity to be butchered. And sometimes, you can't have everything.

[jon041065]

Then if you think that most people were in favor of the job being shoehorned to fit the mold, you've not been looking hard enough, because I can see countless counter-examples. People actually understood and recognized that it was a weird job to make fit in FFXIV, and some of them even gave a lot of suggestions to try and break the current system because it was too restrictive. While people ovbiously didn't want it to be "limited" (no one is arguing that), they also didn't want its identity to be butchered.

Being OP and does not function in large parts of the game are not parts of blu identity. They have had some OP spells in the past but those had some limits on them. Blu identity has always been learning and using enemy abilities. XI made the job worth within that game without being OP in most cases and still kept the key identity intact. Yes different games but it proves that blue mage can work in a mmo setting with those two key elements.

I said that most that were requesting the job wanted a XIV job. Yes, that would typically mean that it would need some concessions to fit within the trinity. Or they could have used blu to start pushing the limits or go beyond the trinity system as you said. It's what they should have done with rdm but that job ended up being pretty fun regardless and we expected similar treatment for blu.

There were plenty of examples of how/why blu wouldn't work but those were barely from people that were ASKING for the job. Mostly two different groups. So putting the job in this way doesn't do a lot for the majority that were asking for the job.

Let's pretend that there was a new subscription option that would be like 1/3rd of the normal price. This sub option would let you play blue mage with the restrictions of no matchmaking, no pvp, no palace of the dead, and can't be used in anything that requires you to be higher than level 50. You would also be unable to change class/jobs. How many do you think would go with that sub option? How many do you think would still be using that sub in April? They already said the update patches for blu are coming after 5.0 so the number that would subscribe in this way would gets us close to telling us how effective this is as retention content. If the majority of the player base is tired of the game being stale and getting the same kind of content each patch then those that would subscribe in this way would be a pretty large number right? Or do you think it would be on the low side? If so, do you think it would be enough for SE to think of their first limited job as a success?