Blue Mage: Are you kidding me!?

[Flatopia]

https://massivelyop.com/2018/11/22/w...ont-like-that/

May want to try and give this a read it actually makes a lot of sense. Whether you agree with it or not.. it’s interesting

I disagree with a lot of it. It seems to offer the worst arguments it could have found, and set them up in even worse ways, only to use arguments with it that people are having all the time in these threads. Essentially taking the second part of discussions without the rest of discussions. Too many vapid assumptions like "let’s even suppose for the sake of argument that it doesn’t just feel like Black Mage But Mildly Different." which is just silly. If this is such a common assumption, why do the other two casters play very differently?
Here's some real questions people need to actually answer, as these seem to be big ones most people who are fighting for BLU are truly asking.
"Why not add a standardized and coherently designed Job as a separate mode from this Move-log and carnival stuff?"
"Why should we, as players, be okay with classical Final Fantasy jobs that are made more like minigames than jobs?"
"Why should we expect this content to earn continued support unlike every other diversion from main content?"
"Why is the idea of adapting a job into the FFXIV formula,assuming they do so in a way that preserves the job fantasy, considered so bad if they do it right like RDM?"
"Why is BLU a good thing to make into a minigame? Why not remove summoner as a standard job, make it limited, but give them the large and varied summons they've been wanting? Wouldn't that be much more faithful, and, according to most staunch defenders of this, better off because of it?"

Also, I wish people would stop acting like people who want BLU in 14 as a standard job don't realize they play differently. Anyone who has seen even 10 seconds of FFXI gameplay knows that much.

[Huntrss]

Guys Get the spells, Get to level 50 and then go into Party Finder get 8 Players (through Chat or Party Finder) willing to Try and Guess What Do Coil. Personally I think Blue Mages Can Solo, Do Dungeons, Trails and 8 man Raids but you want a Solo Job to do all things. It will not Happen. you will have as of ShadowBringers 18 Jobs (17 Normal do all things Jobs and a Limited Job) that can do half of what the others do. We can all agree why isn't Deep Dungeon allowed mostly I stand by it's not 60 yet since Blue Mages could solo it easy (unless that's what the Carnival for). but I do agree SE is trying to be fateful to the Blue Mage. Some Jobs will not be able to do all things and Go to all places but that doesn't mean it's not able to be A main Job as long as your willing to work on it and get to level50 yet alone to level 80.

[Kabooa]

https://massivelyop.com/2018/11/22/w...ont-like-that/

May want to try and give this a read it actually makes a lot of sense. Whether you agree with it or not.. it’s interesting

It makes about as much sense as a platypus.

[Starcake28]

Like i said before i already know way they did this because he know there will be alot of lazy players that try to play blue mage but they will not like to farm all there spells like most of us just like they did in 11 alot of ppl just wanted to play blue mage but didn't want to farm.... Then you see them say this.. Way Can't they just give us the spells its stupid to farm spells so long.. then i say this.. If u don't want to farm spells blue mage is not for you play other classes. Tht's wat he was mostly looking at not that blue mage get spells farm monsters that way he said tht about bad breath lol it's sad how a noob can mess everything up for the better players but wat can we say.. when you look at blue mage they was never op they had alot to bring to groups. when i look at the monster abilitys they have in 14 blue mage can use them like acid water or shower i think the monster ability name was. Anyway i said wat i had to say and i know this is true i see alot of them in FF14 already they will disagree with what i'm saying but its true they will also like this ti happen to blue mage now because its almost like FF11 farming spells.

[HyperiusUltima]

Like i said before i already know way they did this because he know there will be alot of lazy players that try to play blue mage but they will not like to farm all there spells like most of us just like they did in 11 alot of ppl just wanted to play blue mage but didn't want to farm.... Then you see them say this.. Way Can't they just give us the spells its stupid to farm spells so long.. then i say this.. If u don't want to farm spells blue mage is not for you play other classes. Tht's wat he was mostly looking at not that blue mage get spells farm monsters that way he said tht about bad breath lol it's sad how a noob can mess everything up for the better players but wat can we say.. when you look at blue mage they was never op they had alot to bring to groups. when i look at the monster abilitys they have in 14 blue mage can use them like acid water or shower i think the monster ability name was. Anyway i said wat i had to say and i know this is true i see alot of them in FF14 already they will disagree with what i'm saying but its true they will also like this ti happen to blue mage now because its almost like FF11 farming spells.

Erm...let's face it. Blue Mage in EVERY ITERATION, in some shape or form, had to learn spells from Monsters. I challenge you to name ONE GAME in the FF series that introduces a Blue Mage, and does not use Monsters to learn their Blue Magic(Exemption is VIII, because that was an entirely different learning system).

[jon041065]

Erm...let's face it. Blue Mage in EVERY ITERATION, in some shape or form, had to learn spells from Monsters. I challenge you to name ONE GAME in the FF series that introduces a Blue Mage, and does not use Monsters to learn their Blue Magic(Exemption is VIII, because that was an entirely different learning system).

I don't think they were complaining about learning spells. Sounded more that they were saying the argument that "player doesnt have X spell so they will be kicked" as a reason to limit blu is dumb. That most people that wanted blu would actually put in the time to learn their spells instead of trying to skate by.

[HyperiusUltima]

Snip.

1 - Isn't that what they're working on for Shadowbringers? We don't know what they do in the back-end other than make attempts to make the game better.

2 - Because of the way Blue Mage is set up. We all know it has to learn skills from monsters, and if you try to take that into a standardized dungeon setting, there's bound to be problems either on one end or another is Blue Mage is missing a skill or two.

3 - We don't know the answer to that question, but in regards to diversions, you can look at Eureka and see that there are people who enjoy it; there's even a freaking Discord with tons of people in it. It's not to say the content's for everyone, but realize that Blue Mage may not be for everyone either. Let alone, if it gets good reception upon release in some form or another, we'll more than likely see new content for it; if it's not received well, then they'll more than likely try to make amendments the best they can just like they did with Pagos and Pyros.

4 - That depends on your perception. What is so right about RDM? The lore, the aesthetic, and many other things for that matter all add up to what RDM is. What comes to mind when you think of Blue Mage?

What's more, breaking traditional trends is certainly a thing, but in regards to Blue Mage you can't break it, otherwise it simply just becomes a Mage. If you're supposed to learn from Monsters, then do so. If you were to add Blue Mage to the DF and go into Sastasha, there's more than likely one thing that'll pop up in their current system(which they'll more than likely have regardless if they get converted): "Does the Blue Mage have X Monster Skill?"

That breaks their job in DF if they don't learn Monster Skills, and even moreso a conundrum if we try to impose DF Requirements on Blue Mage.

5 - Because Summoner was one of the jobs that was released during A Realm Reborn. They created the pet system for SCH and SMN both, and having to rework that entire system would be a pain in the ass. Blue Mage makes sense due to how traditionally it works; the only time we've seen it be different is in FFVIII, where you use items to learn Blue Magic for Quistis' Limit Break action.

There's also the consideration that Yoshida's Development Team more than likely has higher priorities to bring new experiences rather than try and create new content on a job that already has its job fantasy going for it right now. It'd make sense if they did it in the next expansion to spread out on the pet system(if they ever manage to get it to respond properly), but it just doesn't seem like a proper realization right now.

[HyperiusUltima]

I don't think they were complaining about learning spells. Sounded more that they were saying the argument that "player doesnt have X spell so they will be kicked" as a reason to limit blu is dumb. That most people that wanted blu would actually put in the time to learn their spells instead of trying to skate by.

I mean, that'd typically be what it becomes if we introduce Blue Mage to DF out the gate and try to impose limitations. There's also this question: "What effect will Blue Mage have on Duty Finder Dungeons? Will it make them go by too fast? Will it make them slog through it?"

If it goes by too fast, then we can easily say that Blue Mage's skills are overtuned for Dungeons. If it goes too slow due to its kit, then it'd be like you're doing a 3-man dungeon party with a Tank, Healer, and DPS with one straggler who's doing minimal damage.

[jon041065]

I mean, that'd typically be what it becomes if we introduce Blue Mage to DF out the gate and try to impose limitations. There's also this question: "What effect will Blue Mage have on Duty Finder Dungeons? Will it make them go by too fast? Will it make them slog through it?"

If it goes by too fast, then we can easily say that Blue Mage's skills are overtuned for Dungeons. If it goes too slow due to its kit, then it'd be like you're doing a 3-man dungeon party with a Tank, Healer, and DPS with one straggler who's doing minimal damage.

Hmmm, not sure why you are replying to me to say these things. I was just trying to clarify what the other poster was saying. Well what I thought they were trying to say.

I think this whole DF argument is silly. If people really have such a phobia about this then make PF groups. I'm not unsympathetic to people with fear of whatever but from my point of view, someone with multiple sclerosis and an anxiety disorder with panic attacks that can make my MS act up even more, the PF is a solution. It's not the best solution I'd admit but they could restrict queuing up until you have learned "x,y, and z spells" at various level ranges or do achievements for a level range "learn all level 21-25 spells". We don't know if there are level requirements to learn spells yet but would it be awful if they did?

As for the rest of your post, they could do this thing called balancing. Maybe, just maybe, that would work.

[Mithia]

Hmmm, not sure why you are replying to me to say these things. I was just trying to clarify what the other poster was saying. Well what I thought they were trying to say.

I think this whole DF argument is silly. If people really have such a phobia about this then make PF groups. I'm not unsympathetic to people with fear of whatever but from my point of view, someone with multiple sclerosis and an anxiety disorder with panic attacks that can make my MS act up even more, the PF is a solution. It's not the best solution I'd admit but they could restrict queuing up until you have learned "x,y, and z spells" at various level ranges or do achievements for a level range "learn all level 21-25 spells". We don't know if there are level requirements to learn spells yet but would it be awful if they did?

As for the rest of your post, they could do this thing called balancing. Maybe, just maybe, that would work.

The problem is the class is designed towards grinding creature X for a while to learn its monster skill, if BLU goes into DF they would ask 3 other people to slow down to "help" them obtain a certain skill. And in ARR content you pretty much just melt mobs mind. Hence it can be both frustrating for the party and BLU, even going to the point of just leaving after the required monsters are all dead or asking to be kicked. This would happen, people want it all the "fast" way. It would simply create unnecessary drama and taxation's on players that just want to get their roulette done, which can all be avoided by locking the BLU mage out of dungeon finder and forcing them into PF so people know what they are going to join for.

And lvl 50 max BLU mage in DF would simply become like a swarm of locusts, you'd rarely get an instance from SB or HW.

The entire argument of "its my favorite class, I always dreamed of going into DF with it and raid endgame with my friends"... is just ugh, please, its free content you are receiving. Take it, enjoy it, don't act like the sky is falling. There is no need to compromise at this point since you don't know how it will play out.

There will be players who will enjoy this content even if it never catches up to max level. Just like with Eureka. If this kind of content doesn't appeal to you, well honestly try something different or go play BLU in a previous installment of the FF series where it was as you envisioned it to be.