Blue Mage might actually be a good thing.

[jon041065]

And there in lies the crux of your argument. This is not the right time for feed back because once again we don't know the full fundamentals of this conceptual system because we have not experienced it yet. This is like me saying "The concept of trusting a rubber rope to support my weight when I jump off this bridge is ridiculous so I immediate hate this experience. Without ever trying it. We never know anything for sure until we experience it. We have only a loose understanding of the "limited job" system. We have the bare bones basics that they were willing to share with us. We have no idea what their future plans are, how this system will evolve over time, or even how it works now. We don't know what possibilities it will open up for us as players. What experiences it could bring to us. There are so many more questions then there are answers right now. This is why I've been stating patience is key. Just give things a chance. My lord if no one took any risks with status quo.. we'd still be basing our understanding of Human Anatomy on the observations of an ancient greek man who never even dissected a human body.

Why do I need to test a job that doesn't function in the full game and therefore can't be used in the ways I want like all other previous jobs to feel that it's a bad idea?

[jon041065]

And WE appreciate new ideas which set us appart from other MMORPGS ? Oo


The YT dude "Work To Game" had many points left about FF14 and BLU is a right step in the right direction (cause we work all the time the same tomestone 4parts of a raid with a single boss trial conent like we did in FF14 2.0)... and YES its make a huge diffrence to have a class which is "limited" system and the others not, cause its the first try to implement a system which is totaly new and maybe a alternative way for endcontent like "dutyfinderparty-dps-wait-queu game!"
So many ppl which had wait exactly for content and include the class like this, we have 1 out of 3 fan festivals which will show us the content, "limited" only was the whole content WE had see maybe with all fan festivals BLU will make much more sense to us all.
im not who u are and why u talk in WE but i can only talk for myself at the end, and i know tons of ppl mostly DoH and DoL which need this and happy about this, we have already a WoW which is based on raids only so from the "Be-point" of few this concept work very well and maybe even more in the future.

WE will see dear John WE will see!

I've been talking to Brian from Work to Game over discord for nearly 2 days and it's been a debate at times but we have agreed on many things actually. His reasoning for why limited jobs are a good idea AT THE MOMENT is because of how some players act when there is an element of player choice in the game. He said his view can change to match up to mine later.

There's nothing wrong with wanting solo content and open world content. It's not a zero-sum equation though. There can be that content and still full jobs.

[Lyden]

So you know what he think in generell of FF14 and the issues it has isnt it ?

Look WE ( and yaeh i mean the whole community which hate and love the now state of BLU) we love Final Fantasy thats it what brings us together... we all in sorrow or in joy about things like this...
But this isnt a another FFXIII triology, to have a fulljob who cant beat some content alone is also limited ... had u ever try to beat ravana alone with a WHM or MCH... wont work at all guess BLU is ideal for situations like this.

But ... againe let him grow into this game it wont destroy anything at all.
For some ppl its the worst case scenario, for others a blessing.
I wish DRK would be a DPS and not like he is now ... but it isnt atm.
I had tons of wishes which where never heared and brought up in the game... cause this game can't fullfill all wishes , and this limited job the first of this system is maybe not for you now or later a wish which was fullfilled but maybe for some other ppl, keep this in mind my friend.

[jon041065]

So you know what he think in generell of FF14 and the issues it has isnt it ?

Look WE ( and yaeh i mean the whole community which hate and love the now state of BLU) we love Final Fantasy thats it what brings us together... we all in sorrow or in joy about things like this...
But this isnt a another FFXIII triology, to have a fulljob who cant beat some content alone is also limited ... had u ever try to beat ravana alone with a WHM or MCH... wont work at all guess BLU is ideal for situations like this.

But ... againe let him grow into this game it wont destroy anything at all.
For some ppl its the worst case scenario, for others a blessing.
I wish DRK would be a DPS and not like he is now ... but it isnt atm.
I had tons of wishes which where never heared and brought up in the game... cause this game can't fullfill all wishes , and this limited job the first of this system is maybe not for you now or later a wish which was fullfilled but maybe for some other ppl, keep this in mind my friend.

I have seen absolutely no one asking for the ability of the job to solo content be changed or removed. It wouldn't be much different than other jobs soloing old content. I don't think blu should be able to solo current content and it's obvious the devs agree with that by keeping it level restricted away from current content.

Yes the game can't fulfill any wishes but what's wrong with you asking for them?

I've listened to several of Brian's videos and through talking with him that yes I do believe I have a good idea of what he wants and his current largest issue is clearly the lack of level sync and open world content.

Jon, ... i wish u a nice day *hug*

Its not possible to talk to someone who living in their own little world (cause u dont know one who would love to do things like that, doesnt mean there doesnt exist at all!)
And btw BLU is only caped atm to lvl50 with 4.5 and he raise his cap with 5.0 this could have many reasons but neather me or u know by facts what the point is of this idea!

For me so far im done here ,againe wish u a nice day my frind *wave*

I would like to do those things. I mainly play to raid but have tried everything else in the game outside of pvp and have enjoyed pretty much all of it.

I'm wrong for suggesting there is an achievable middle ground? And I know that they plan on increasing blu's level cap but they clearly stated that it will have a solo focus and not meant for group play.

You have a nice day as well.

[Lyden]

Jon, ... i wish u a nice day *hug*

Its not possible to talk to someone who living in their own little world (cause u dont know one who would love to do things like that, doesnt mean there doesnt exist at all!)
And btw BLU is only caped atm to lvl50 with 4.5 and he raise his cap with 5.0 this could have many reasons but neather me or u know by facts what the point is of this idea!

For me so far im done here ,againe wish u a nice day my frind *wave*

[Darkpaw]

Why do I need to test a job that doesn't function in the full game and therefore can't be used in the ways I want like all other previous jobs to feel that it's a bad idea?

I didn't say test I said experience, and mainly because it's not just about you. It's not about any of us. It's about all of us and the health of this game and the community and vision the dev team has for it. You can feel it's a bad idea but automatically dismissing the content prepared based on very limited information and no on hand experience is to be frank.. insane. It has more power to our feedback if we take our time and be patient and come with a more complete and well reasoned argument that doesn't boil down to "Well I feel like I won't like this content. Therefore I don't like it. Therefore they wasted time and resources." Come with actual criticism and facts to back it up. Not speculation and knee jerk fear induced reactions. It's not logical.

Now I want to end this by saying I do agree this does not have to be a zero sum equation in the end, but look at everything going on at the dev team standpoint and look at Japanese business culture. They are working on a massive two part patch to set up a massive expansion. In this patch alone, we're getting BLU in the incarnation we have been presented for better or worse, there will be other job adjustments and changes and potential fixes (ala possible whm and mch as mentioned in the Q&A prior to the live letter) a new gate, a massive new feature to the gold saucer (speculated as blitzball but could be anything), a new 24 man raid, two new trials (normal and extreme), a new dungeon, a huge msq, and a world visit system (god knows how complicated that has to have been to code.). All in the middle of a major expansion which will fundamentally change a great deal for this game and evolve it further, All while in the beginning stages of a major press tour to hype up the new expansion. It will be awhile before any major change comes to BLU in the form of a fully realized job if it happens, and they aren't going to say anything about it because it's not in the culture to admit something like that. If it were they would just outright admit Machinist has been busted this entire expansion.

[jon041065]

I didn't say test I said experience, and mainly because it's not just about you. It's not about any of us. It's about all of us and the health of this game and the community and vision the dev team has for it. You can feel it's a bad idea but automatically dismissing the content prepared based on very limited information and no on hand experience is to be frank.. insane. It has more power to our feedback if we take our time and be patient and come with a more complete and well reasoned argument that doesn't boil down to "Well I feel like I won't like this content. Therefore I don't like it. Therefore they wasted time and resources." Come with actual criticism and facts to back it up. Not speculation and knee jerk fear induced reactions. It's not logical.

Now I want to end this by saying I do agree this does not have to be a zero sum equation in the end, but look at everything going on at the dev team standpoint and look at Japanese business culture. They are working on a massive two part patch to set up a massive expansion. In this patch alone, we're getting BLU in the incarnation we have been presented for better or worse, there will be other job adjustments and changes and potential fixes (ala possible whm and mch as mentioned in the Q&A prior to the live letter) a new gate, a massive new feature to the gold saucer (speculated as blitzball but could be anything), a new 24 man raid, two new trials (normal and extreme), a new dungeon, a huge msq, and a world visit system (god knows how complicated that has to have been to code.). All in the middle of a major expansion which will fundamentally change a great deal for this game and evolve it further, All while in the beginning stages of a major press tour to hype up the new expansion. It will be awhile before any major change comes to BLU in the form of a fully realized job if it happens, and they aren't going to say anything about it because it's not in the culture to admit something like that. If it were they would just outright admit Machinist has been busted this entire expansion.

You have NEVER heard of an idea in your life and instantly thought "well that sounds pretty bad to me"? Do I have to go to Shooter McGavin's house for breakfast and try it first before I can say "I'm pretty sure I don't want to eat that ever".

I understand that you guys think that maybe people on my side of the argument will enjoy the Carnival enough that we can accept it not being a full job. I'm sure some will. For some of those, not being able to use it in the content we want LIKE EVERY OTHER PREVIOUS job is enough to make us feel it's a bad design. I hope that you do like the Carnival but I still hope they scrap the idea of limited jobs and at the very least make a full version of blu. Ideally they would instead use blu to push or go past the limits of the trinity system like they should have rdm. The game's version of rdm is pretty fun though.

[Garnix]

To me, the way they are implementing is fine, and sounds fun! So I am really looking forward to play it and unlock all those spells! Especially as a I do not plan to play it in high-end content.
Honestly, there are just two things holding it back in my opinion : no PvP (doesn't make sense), and the "temporary" level cap.



But honestly, with some "minor" tweaking here and there, I think it could probably be as viable as any other job in multiplayer content...

1) Do not allow queuing in roulettes etc. unless the spellbook is full (all skills learned), and you reached MAX level. (this way, you keep the uniqueness of the job of having to level up in the world and learn your skills, and on top of this, you will still need PF to acquire some of the skills like Shiva's)

2) They said you can select 24 skills. They could just use 24 default values when you queue in duty finder, and only treat those 24 skills as part of the job for the multiplayer content.

3) Do not add new skills to those default 24 outside of expansions, otherwise you would enter a balancing nightmare. (for example, if BLU was released in 3.4, do not allow the use of Zurvan's skill in DF before Stormblood's release)

4) After each expansion, you will have to go back to learning your spells before being able to go back in duty finder (also applicable for content you were able to run the week before! Put everybody back in the wild lands at launch! )

5) If using PF, you should still be able to select the skills you want, as being currently implemented --> this would have to be monitored and balanced too. Because people might just destroy every content, which is really odd, because this is exactly what they want to avoid, but at the same time is the only thing that is possible with the current implementation of the job : people will just try to come up with the most OP setup... It will just be restricted due to being level 50...
Without that restriction, blue mages would just destroy all content if they are as OP as implied...
Or maybe they should have strict restrictions. For example, by making it mandatory to use the default 24 skills for recent content, and remove that restriction one or two patches later.

5) Why no PVP???? Every class as a default set of skills that is completely different between PVP and PVE, so...why no PvP for Blue mage???

6) Deep dungeon is not clear. Is Blue mage to allowed to go there at all?
Or not allowed with a duty finder deep dungeon?
I mean, can I solo deep dungeon as OP Blue Mage?
I think this is the only thing that is needed in that content : a class to rival with Red Mage in deep dungeon.

[Darkpaw]

Of course I have had that thought. I'm human. I even had the thought right when I heard about this limited job, but I didn't come to the forums and blow up about it, I didn't go rage on reddit. I took a step back and decided to collect my thoughts and let reason prevail. That's when I realized the few facts.


I am not saying that the carnival or the implementation that is going forward will change any minds. I have never suggested that. What I have stated and tried to get people to do is hold the criticism and feedback for just a bit (primarily when it comes to belittling the content or condemning it outright, or just passing judgement on it) so that we can take the time to EXPERIENCE it. That's been my whole point all along. Just wait and try it first. I don't expect everyone to like it. I'm not sure even a majority will like it. I don't know that I will like it, but at least give it a shot. THEN come back and make a reasoned argument for a full implementation based on what you have experienced first hand. It holds a lot more weight and power that way. What if in reacting the way your side has the dev team now has an excuse not to ever change BLU because they can make the argument "Well they condemned it before they even tried it and passed judgement on it so all these complaints are already tainted?" not saying they would do this but what if they did? You can't really argue that point. Because it is factual and that is human nature. There are a thousand examples of it throughout our history.

By all means feel it is a bad design choice, approach with apprehension, don't get your hopes up and be skeptical, but don't be close minded either. Give it a chance.

My other point is that we the community have been asking this dev team for a long time to take some chances, and do something original, do something we don't expect, get creative... this is an attempt at them doing exactly that and we are running around screaming like they just set our scalps on fire. We don't know what the future is for this limited job system or what the intent was behind it. Realistically with what they presented we know very little about this system at all. We know far more about the world visit system, the trust system, and the new game + system (which we know basically nothing about) than we do about the limited job system. It does us no good to judge something before we have all the facts. Any one with any common sense knows this is true.

So what I am asking for is patience, by all means approach with apprehension, have your reservations about the system and the job, but give it a bloody chance. Try it before you condemn it.

[EusisLandale]

6) Deep dungeon is not clear. Is Blue mage to allowed to go there at all?
Or not allowed with a duty finder deep dungeon?
I mean, can I solo deep dungeon as OP Blue Mage?
I think this is the only thing that is needed in that content : a class to rival with Red Mage in deep dungeon.

Deep Dungeon might reasonably get its restriction lifted. Right now their cap is still 10 levels below the cap in PotD, which would be a good enough reason to lock them out for now.