Don't like Blue Mage? Here is how to convince SE to change it...

[Vahlnir]

Beastmaster will also likely end up as a "limited job" imo, and would probably end up being leveled in the open world only. To me, that wouldn't be so bad. It would remain true to its identity that way.

[Bernhardt]

While that's true, there's no evidence to suggest that BLU would've ever been implemented in the game without the "Limited Job" system. No matter if it was feasible or not.

So now instead of people getting excited that their favorite up and coming FF job getting implemented in the game, they now have to hold their breath and hope they're not the "lucky" job that gets limited.

[Shurrikhan]

Thank you answering.

And since you asked:

1. How exactly were you expecting Blue Mage, assuming it was implemented as a normal job, to be?
2. What user experience were you expecting (if any) that couldn't be gotten from another job?

Edit: For me personally, and given FFXIV's narrow combat and encounter design, I wouldn't have expected much, maybe a DoT mage with a heal (assuming ‘Caster DPS’ as a role). At least that wouldn't have been, button order aside, entirely a clone of RDM or SCH, however I certainly wouldn't have expected it to feel like a Blue Mage (similar to how I don't feel RDM feels much like a Red Mage) due to the extreme focus on DPS, and almost non-existence of significant debuffs, or buffs / heals beyond a limit, in FFXIV.

1.
I wasn't expecting it to be implemented until we'd first had previewed sweeping changes to job design favoring cohesion, identity, and versatility over templates. With those changes in place, the minimal further effort would be required to integrate BLU, while BLU in turn could promote further beneficial changes.

2.
None, ultimately, save for its "moments of glory" in combat, which would not be unique for having them -- only in the shape they take. All else, I'd actually hope would gradually become the property of all jobs for whom it'd at all make sense.
Learning skills from who you fight and how you fight them? Sold. I'll buy that for everyone, albeit to a lesser degree.
Combos not as chains but as inherent synergies between different effects, bonuses, or aspects within different skills? Sold. I'll buy it for everyone.
BLU could be the first to prototype the change, letting the devs test the waters and give a poster boy to the potential change, but it should be in the interest of universal design where possible.

That said, I do think BLU would still have enough of its aesthetic unique to it even if you were to make, to some degree, universal its every addition to the systems or undermechanics of the game. This, again, comes down to moments of glory in the fight, and the things you can laugh about or discuss outside the fight.

BLM has its Flarex3+Foulx2 potential burst. SMN can burst out a Summon Behemoth if needed. Bard has repertoire proc overloads. Monk has its twists and turns in rotation at certain SkS breakpoints from RoF, TK, and PB, and very satisfying perfect RoFs. I suspect BLU would have its own, though at first far more varied, moment such as those, in a panic Healing Rain set earlier to make sure the raid could survive the continuous raid damage of Lightning Phase doubling into Slime Pools and sourcing Whirlpool when adds spawned just as a ton of lightning strikes hit the raid -- their damage then channeling through the soaked ground beneath them and into the adds suddenly grouped up by Whirlpool.

Out of combat, that would be things like your "deck", if the "Pick X of Y" concept sticks, and the ridiculous names people come up with for their builds, weighing breadth vs. depth of synergy and capacity.

[Fyce]

So now instead of people getting excited that their favorite up and coming FF job getting implemented in the game, they now have to hold their breath and hope they're not the "lucky" job that gets limited.

There's basically three options for Jobs coming after 4.5:
1. Job getting implemented and shoehorned to fit the mold of Normal Jobs.
2. Job getting implemented with a unique system/gimmick so special that it has to be a Limited Job.
3. Job not getting implemented.

(If you want a 4th option, which would be getting the positives from 1 and 2, you basically have to change the mold itself. Which is not a light thing at all. And at this point you'd probably be better off asking for Final Fantasy XIV-2.)

My point was to say that if option 2 wasn't created, Blue Mage (and every possible future Limited Jobs) could've very well ended up in option 3. I'm not talking about "hoping your job won't be implemented as a limited job", I'm talking about "hoping your job will be implemented at all".

Lots of people are saying that BLU could've existed as a "Normal Job" instead of a "Limited Job". I'm just saying that it could've also very well be nothing at all.

Tl;Dr: Sometimes you have to pick the lesser of two evils.

[Shougun]

(If you want a 4th option, which would be getting the positives from 1 and 2, you basically have to change the mold itself. Which is not a light thing at all. And at this point you'd probably be better off asking for Final Fantasy XIV-2.)

I vote for the fourth option .

I absolutely agree it'd be the most costly, but I also imagine it being the most pleasing. Also if they're willing to create unique systems in these "advanced" jobs (ffxi flash backs..lol), then we could look forward to other jobs like that. For example Beastmaster also coming with a sort of Shepard system (tame/husbandry).

Easy to say of course, not knowing what is actually being asked but I guess part of me thinks its worth saying what you want even if you think it might be "tough". Because, for example, you'd have a company like EA or Activision who'd give you a rock and charge a monthly subscription to keep it "active" if they could... Not that I'd turn it into a boycott or anything, I think the housing issue annoys me more (still lol, make em an instanced option >.>) but I'll still ask for the fourth vision.

I know even if I like the first option, I'll still want the fourth at the end of the day. Like 1st option is amazing, I love it - won't change the desire to want it also in current systems and content.

[Elerus]

There's basically three options for Jobs coming after 4.5:

I think that's a false equivalency. I'll continue to say this but I see no reason why Blue Mage could not retain its solo content in the Carnival and be allowed to farm and work toward its "devastating" monster spells while at the SAME TIME having a curated list of predetermined spells the developers can balance around for Duty Finder and current content. The technology is literally already there because that is what happens to every class the second they enter PvP - your spells gets swapped out for a preset list - Square can even determine what combos you can use. They could take that tech, expand on it, and deliver a best of both worlds approach. Frankly, I'd rather it be used for Blue Mage and other, possible upcoming classes than languish in a single mode for a subset of the playerbase.

[Zakuno2]

I find it funny people keep saying that they are happy there is more solo content in the game. Like the class shouldn't have both solo content and multiplayer content at once. I want all the solo stuff to stay but i would like to be able to play the normal game as well. It just feels like they cut off 80% of a class, stitched on 10% of a class to the twenty, and called it a new class. I know nothing is going to change for release, but I am hoping feedback is going to get them to open up to expanding it into a normal class with solo options.

[Fyce]

I think that's a false equivalency. I'll continue to say this but I see no reason why Blue Mage could not retain its solo content in the Carnival and be allowed to farm and work toward its "devastating" monster spells while at the SAME TIME having a curated list of predetermined spells the developers can balance around for Duty Finder and current content. The technology is literally already there because that is what happens to every class the second they enter PvP - your spells gets swapped out for a preset list - Square can even determine what combos you can use. They could take that tech, expand on it, and deliver a best of both worlds approach. Frankly, I'd rather it be used for Blue Mage and other, possible upcoming classes than languish in a single mode for a subset of the playerbase.

You're asking them to design and balance two jobs in one. Which means either no new Healer job, or no new Tank job for the expac.
If you don't take dev time and overall ressources required to bring your ideas to life, then they're not realistic.

Of course it'd be awesome to have everything. But that can only happen in a dream world.

[Elerus]

You're asking them to design and balance two jobs in one. Which means either no new Healer job, or no new Tank job for the expac.
If you don't take dev time and overall ressources required to bring your ideas to life, then they're not realistic.

Of course it'd be awesome to have everything. But that can only happen in a dream world.

I'm asking they design a set of Blue Magic skills for current group content as they would for any other class. Then I'm asking they let you learn monster skills for their solo and curated content.

There is one set of skills that the developers will have to design.

There is another set that is literally copy/pasted from the repertoire of monsters. This already seems to be SE's plan, so nothing has to change. After all Square was stating how Level 5 death would, apparently, kill raid bosses so it doesn't seem like they're going to alter, nerf, or nullify any monster skill Blue Mages presently get. It's a case of what you see (or get hit with) is what you get. They'll use the same potency, animation, and particle effect from the monster itself.

I sincerely don't think that's beyond SE's resources. WoW can shake up every single one of their 34 specs, add new ones, and then slather on multiple entirely new skill trees on top of that for each expansion. I find it hard to believe Square cannot design a single class for group play and provide some solo content using copy/pasted half-a-decade old abilities that are already in the game.

In fact, while we're on that topic I'll go a step beyond: not only should Square use this approach but if it proved popular and successful they should then look into providing solo content for EACH class in the game. They're a multibillion dollar company, and their competitors can, have, and are doing it. One has to keep up with the competition.

[Fyce]

I'm asking they design a set of Blue Magic skills for current group content as they would for any other class. Then I'm asking they let you learn monster skills for their solo and curated content.

There is one set of skills that the developers will have to design.

There is another set that is literally copy/pasted from the repertoire of monsters. This already seems to be SE's plan, so nothing has to change. After all Square was stating how Level 5 death would, apparently, kill raid bosses so it doesn't seem like they're going to alter, nerf, or nullify any monster skill Blue Mages presently get. It's a case of what you see (or get hit with) is what you get. They'll use the same potency, animation, and particle effect from the monster itself.

I sincerely don't think that's beyond SE's resources. WoW can shake up every single one of their 34 specs, add new ones, and then slather on multiple entirely new skill trees on top of that for each expansion. I find it hard to believe Square cannot design a single class for group play and provide some solo content using copy/pasted half-a-decade old abilities that are already in the game.

In fact, while we're on that topic I'll go a step beyond: not only should Square use this approach but if it proved popular and successful they should then look into providing solo content for EACH class in the game. They're a multibillion dollar company, and their competitors can, have, and are doing it. One has to keep up with the competition.

I don't think you fully graps how hard and time consuming it is to "design one set of skill for group content". They can't even keep a good balance between three tanks that has been around for more than three years now. Same for the three healers. And if the leaks are correct, we're getting one more for each of these roles.
And now you ask them so simply make another set? And your argument is that WoW did some stuff and that "they are a multibillion dollar company". That's... not how that works. At all.

P.S.: WoW's balance is trash compared to FFXIV's. Lots of builds are absolute tosh, and every expac you get everything thrown upside-down. I really wouldn't take it as a good example.