Blue Mage might actually be a good thing.

[Melichoir]

Show me the person who doesn't want the "Masked Carnival". You'll be hard-pressed to find them. That is because most people don't mind it, if they don't actually share your enthusiasm for it. Like you said, it's different, it's fresh, and it's loyal to the job in certain ways.
But this is an MMO. When people ask for jobs in this sort of game, they want to play it in the main content. They want to be able to raid with it if that's what they fancy, they want to be able to run dungeons with it, they want to be able to run MSQ with it. They want to main it.
I personally want to walk up to Zenos with Hien and the Scions at my back and imagine their reactions when my next move is Bad Breath. It doesn't seem like I'll be able to do that.

As others can say better than I, XIV is no stranger to tweaking jobs so it fits in with its system, even at costs to their lore. Having a version of BLU that will be usable outside of its personal grind and Masked Carnival is far from being mutually exclusive with it being this new game-mode.
Yes, we need more innovation. Yes, we need freshness. But to introduce a job, one that was so highly requested, and to limit it to this is... meh.

Youre getting your MMO content. Two new jobs, new areas, new race, new MSQ, new everything we can normally expect. This one facet not being integral to End Game Prog is no where near not getting any MMO main content. And to be very clear, this is still connected to Multiplayer Play. Youre not playing a game within a game where you have 0 interaction with the game. You just wont be able to do certain aspects, most of it limited to End Game Prog or Duty Finder. But youll still hvae access to much of the game, even as BLU. So the complaint boils down to simply the class not being in end game prog. Thats the contention point. Cause it will have the monster skill system. Youll still be able to do dungeons and things. Youre still part of hte MMO crowd. So what is it thats exactly being lost here.

End Game Prog.

And thats fine. Not everything in teh game has to be in service of that. This BLU thing will be fine. People will play it, enjoy it, and itll be something people can do when things slow down for end game prog. Does it suck for a small group of people who wanted BLM in Raid? Sure. Is it this terrible terrible decision that foreshadows the end times? Probably not.

Oh and one other thing:

And this version of BLU is slap in the face for people who expected to be able to main BLU, or take it into raids, or do their weekly/daily roulettes with it.

#slapsforeveryone

This screams of entitlement. Just saying. Theyre not slapping you in the face because ONE thing in the game isnt being implemented the way you want. Its not a slap for everyone. Its SE trying to do two things at once. They want to give the players BLU as true to specs as possible. Doing so means they know it cant be balanced correctly into end game without it being OP (and therefore a must take), or without greatly dumbing it down. The second thing they want to do is give us stuff to do in game that ISNT end game prog. Particularly being able to do stuff during slow times in the game.

And all the knee jerk outrage boils down to people not seeing exactly what SE is trying to give people. Theyre trying to give you more stuff tod o that isnt end game prog. And people are throwing it back in their face and throwing a bit of a tantrum because "MUH BLUE MAGE ISNT IN END GAME RAID! DEVS ARE SO STUPID AND ARE SPITTING ON US! F THIS GAME! UNSUBBED!"

Like holy hell. If you dont like it, thats OK. But it comes off as entitled to get so upset about something that isnt even in the game yet. I am willing to hazard that almost everyone whos complaining hard about he whole BLU thing will ultimately play it and say "Yeah, it was aiite" (if not fun).

[JBee]

Youll still be able to do dungeons and things.

Let's say you 36 BLU and want to run a dungeon for exp. Your highest available is Cutter's Cry. Your only way to run that dungeon is to find 3 other people willing to run it. Since you are not in a roulette, if your friend the 64 DRK goes, they will get next to nothing for their time, other than the feel goods of helping. Which that's all well and fine, sure. But no in game incentive - since the level is so far below them it would be adding a teaspoon of water to a bowl full. There are people out there who would be willing yes, but if you thought queueing as a dps took forever, this will be potentially much, much worse. Same for trials, but instead of 3 people, there are 7. At least with trials there is some interest - people going for ponies and crafting items - something. As for LotA? Good luck if it's even at all possible.

Not everything in teh game has to be in service of that. This BLM thing will be fine. People will play it, enjoy it, and itll be something people can do when things slow down for end game prog. Does it suck for a small group of people who wanted BLM in Raid? Sure.

I know you meant Blue Mage, but having used the Black Mage acronymn, just imagine - imagine if black mage was just being released now and hadn't been in game this whole time..... and you couldn't go into roulettes or current content with it. Instead you had to scour Eorzea for runes for your spells that you could then use to complete in the Thaumaturgical Workshop of Alchemy and Science. Use those runes to learn more runes, unlocking a series of mini game puzzles with a leaderboard system.

That concept may sound neat to someone - and the content in itself might be - but that doesn't change the disappointment for all those nukers out there who had their heart set on Black Mage being their go to job because that's the job they enjoyed the most in previous games. Even if it's not quite right, it's still their go to.

It's not all about how people can't end game raid - they can't play the parts of the game the vast majority of people are playing at.

[Melichoir]

Let's say you 36 BLU and want to run a dungeon for exp. Your highest available is Cutter's Cry. Your only way to run that dungeon is to find 3 other people willing to run it. Since you are not in a roulette, if your friend the 64 DRK goes, they will get next to nothing for their time, other than the feel goods of helping. Which that's all well and fine, sure. But no in game incentive - since the level is so far below them it would be adding a teaspoon of water to a bowl full. There are people out there who would be willing yes, but if you thought queueing as a dps took forever, this will be potentially much, much worse. Same for trials, but instead of 3 people, there are 7. At least with trials there is some interest - people going for ponies and crafting items - something. As for LotA? Good luck if it's even at all possible.

Let me reword this:

Let's say you 36 RDM and want to run a dungeon for exp. Your highest available is Cutter's Cry. Your best bet to run that dungeon is to find 3 other people willing to run it, since you do not want to use roulette and get stuck in a lower lvl dungeon like Sastasha. If your friend the 64 DRK goes, they will get next to nothing for their time, other than the feel goods of helping. Which that's all well and fine, sure. But no in game incentive - since the level is so far below them it would be adding a teaspoon of water to a bowl full. There are people out there who would be willing yes, but if you thought queuing as a dps took forever, this will be potentially much, much worse. Same for trials, but instead of 3 people, there are 7. At least with trials there is some interest - people going for ponies and crafting items - something. As for LotA? Good luck if it's even at all possible.

This, btw, is build around speculation. Given that they do not think the game can be balanced in regards to BLU, it would suggest the class is actually a lot stronger and built more in line for solo content. Meaning, you will have access to skills and abilities from Monsters that would enable you to solo dungeons. I would imagine that soloing everything as BLU would be harder to do, but it is not impossible. There is also the speculation that the only means of gaining exp effectively will be dungeons. We do not know if this will be the case or not. Again, this is an issue of seeing how it operates on implementation.

Also, this actually might encourage more people to build stronger FCs and socialization for the simple fact that running content with FC members is easier to manage than pugging things on PF, or on DF. But then again, as I said, I imagine that the class is designed to solo the game if you find the appropriate monster skills and are a good player yourself.

I know you meant Blue Mage, but having used the Black Mage acronymn, just imagine - imagine if black mage was just being released now and hadn't been in game this whole time..... and you couldn't go into roulettes or current content with it. Instead you had to scour Eorzea for runes for your spells that you could then use to complete in the Thaumaturgical Workshop of Alchemy and Science. Use those runes to learn more runes, unlocking a series of mini game puzzles with a leaderboard system.

That concept may sound neat to someone - and the content in itself might be - but that doesn't change the disappointment for all those nukers out there who had their heart set on Black Mage being their go to job because that's the job they enjoyed the most in previous games. Even if it's not quite right, it's still their go to.

It's not all about how people can't end game raid - they can't play the parts of the game the vast majority of people are playing at.

No, the issue ultimately with your analogy is that the game would be lacking a "Nuker" and implementing a solo class system that was a Nuker would be silly. It would also be silly if they didnt have a heavy healer like WHM and implemented one as a solo class.

The trouble with BLU is that the uniqueness of its concept means that implementing it effectively would either mean dumbing down the concept (and making it compete design wise with RDM, SMN, and BLM), or keeping it as is and making it OP and a must pick for any end game content. The way I see it, if they did dumb it down, the criticism wouldve been "Yeah, this is a watered down version of the class I wanted. It's boring to play and not all that different from 'x'". So SE decided to keep it truer to its concept, while giving us stuff to do that isnt end game prog.

I actually think that is probably the smarter choice. But we'll have to see how it actually works in practice. If it sucks, Im sure there will be changes. Wont be ideal. But its not the end of the world. If its good, then theres no need to complain.

First, do you read context?

Second. IDGAF about Blue Mage personally.

You apparently do if youre saying its a slap in the face.

I'm not a caster main, nor do I have a caster side-job leveled. I've never been a particular fan of Blue Mage in other games, and in fact my favorite version of Blue Mage was the Enemy Skill materia in FF7. I've always found them to be gimmicky and underpowered (never a real fan of RDM for the same reason, though it's less gimmicky and usually just underpowered). So I probably wouldn't level it either way. The only entitlement I'll claim is that we should have been given a job that can participate in all content.

Your last sentinent is the problem. You are arguing that all classes must be able to participate in all content.

But as you should know, you cant take a Fisherman to raid. Or any of the Crafters. Or Gatherers.

So not every class can participate in all the content.

And that is fine. Not everything needs to be able to go to Raid to be worthwhile and fun for players. And I specify Raid because OF the content, thats the content that receives the biggest direct impact from the system they proposed. Youll have access to dungeons, Trials, and (as far as I can tell) the bigger raids. It wont be available immediately, but you will have access to them eventually. So what content are you locked out of? End game Prog. Which is what a lot of people immediately complained about.

[whiskeybravo]

You apparently do if youre saying its a slap in the face.

Your last sentinent is the problem. You are arguing that all classes must be able to participate in all content.

But as you should know, you cant take a Fisherman to raid. Or any of the Crafters. Or Gatherers.

So not every class can participate in all the content.

And that is fine. Not everything needs to be able to go to Raid to be worthwhile and fun for players. And I specify Raid because OF the content, thats the content that receives the biggest direct impact from the system they proposed. Youll have access to dungeons, Trials, and (as far as I can tell) the bigger raids. It wont be available immediately, but you will have access to them eventually. So what content are you locked out of? End game Prog. Which is what a lot of people immediately complained about.

No, it was a directly reply. Read again.

Battle classes should be able to participate in battle content. And technically gathering and crafting classes have more involvement in End Game Raiding than Blue Mage is currently scheduled to, so that's just another grasping-at-straws argument to try and defend SE's direction on this. Kinda funny that for every one of you coming to SE's defense for this there's 10 more that are either questioning it or outright saying it's a bad move.

The rest of your comment is speculation. Yea, maybe at some point in the future before this game dies BLU will be able to play with the rest of the kids on the playground. For the meantime, have fun with your solo content.

[JBee]

Let's say you 36 RDM and want to run a dungeon for exp. Your highest available is Cutter's Cry. Your best bet to run that dungeon is to find 3 other people willing to run it, since you do not want to use roulette and get stuck in a lower lvl dungeon like Sastasha. If your friend the 64 DRK goes, they will get next to nothing for their time, other than the feel goods of helping. Which that's all well and fine, sure. But no in game incentive - since the level is so far below them it would be adding a teaspoon of water to a bowl full. There are people out there who would be willing yes, but if you thought queuing as a dps took forever, this will be potentially much, much worse. Same for trials, but instead of 3 people, there are 7. At least with trials there is some interest - people going for ponies and crafting items - something. As for LotA? Good luck if it's even at all possible.

1 - The leveling roulette would still give the bonus, even if you landed in the lower dungeon of Sastasha.

2 - Big difference in that in your example of the 36 RDM asking the DRK to go along.... if the DRK wasn't into it, they could still queue in solo for a group. The BLU cannot. Otherwise, they would just queue for leveling roulette to begin with.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

1 - The leveling roulette would still give the bonus, even if you landed in the lower dungeon of Sastasha.

2 - Big difference in that in your example of the 36 RDM asking the DRK to go along.... if the DRK wasn't into it, they could still queue in solo for a group. The BLU cannot. Otherwise, they would just queue for leveling roulette to begin with.

Oh, I thought this was about people who are jerks and don't want to help their friends with BLU.

Also, reminder that there's several pre-50 dungeons available with the Squadron.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Oh, I thought this was about people who are jerks and don't want to help their friends with BLU.

Also, reminder that there's several pre-50 dungeons available with the Squadron.

Maybe they want to do something else than spend potentially hours farming Shiva EX? What terrible people they are! Keep in mind, learning abilities is entirely RNG dependent. Therefore, it could take several attempts before you actually learn anything.

[BillyKaplan]

Maybe they want to do something else than spend potentially hours farming Shiva EX? What terrible people they are! Keep in mind, learning abilities is entirely RNG dependent. Therefore, it could take several attempts before you actually learn anything.

I hope they're generous with certain RNG. I mean, you can't exactly use DF for it but imagine a worst case scenario where people don't want to unsync it, or worse - that you can't learn skills unsynced (PLEASE DON'T DO THIS SE). Depending on party, clearing the content alone is enough of a gamble, it'll be worse if you don't get the Shiva skill after that.
Regular mobs can have worse rng, but not impossibly so. I think that would be fair. But extreme bosses? Heaven forbids, needing to learn something from an S rank? Please let those skills be nigh guaranteed, no one wants to burn weeks of trying to spawn Agrippa the Mighty just to get that last skill only to not have RNG favor them.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

Maybe they want to do something else than spend potentially hours farming Shiva EX? What terrible people they are! Keep in mind, learning abilities is entirely RNG dependent. Therefore, it could take several attempts before you actually learn anything.

How's that any different than farming primal dogs in the current Primals? Why is that OK, but helping out a BLU is being looked at as if it's an excruciating task and BLUs are awful people for submitting their friends to that? Why are people arguing from the viewpoint that the DRK isn't playing with his BLU too and will ask the first BLU for help next?

I'm not saying people are forced to help BLUs, btw. But why are people talking as if friends helping out BLUs is some outlandish concept?

[Melichoir]

No, it was a directly reply. Read again.

Battle classes should be able to participate in battle content.

Currently, Blue mage can participate in Battle content. Just not current content. So this is a silly point to make.

And technically gathering and crafting classes have more involvement in End Game Raiding than Blue Mage is currently scheduled to, so that's just another grasping-at-straws argument to try and defend SE's direction on this.

What does Fishing have to do with End game raids? While crafted gear is a definite avenue for end game raids (and typically BiS), gathering itself is only connected to end game raiding by the virtue crafters need materials. But not everything a crafter does is for raiding, which means that Gathering isnt always done for the sake of raid. And to reiterate - Not everything has to be done for teh sake of End Game Raiding. There are crafters who dont craft end game raid gear. And thats fine.

Kinda funny that for every one of you coming to SE's defense for this there's 10 more that are either questioning it or outright saying it's a bad move.

Just because there is an outrage mob, doesnt mean their position is correct. Most of us "Defending" SE are thinking about why they made a design choice and trying to understand it from what we have in the game. A lot of the outrage Ive seen personally see the choice they made as some personal slight, and as complete incompetance, but the only half decent arguments they can come up with is "Its an MMO" and "Just dumb it down so I can play it in current end game content." The latter point is really bothersome, because its pretty much saying "I care more about the name of the class, and not the idea of it.". Or more simply, this argument sounds more like people just want to play something named Blue Mage, and not the iteration of it thats been asked for time and time again on places like these forums or reddit.

This is an important point because people are getting upset at the idea they cant raid with it, rather than getting excited theyll get to play BLU in FFXIV. And to nip the "I want to just play with friends!" argument in the bud, you still can. You just cant do it on BLU for end game content. Cause realistically speaking, do you think people would be totally cool with BLU if it played 100% exactly like BLM, except instead of auto learning your skills or doing a class quest, you go out and find a monster and have learn its ability? That is BLU in teh very basic barebones format, and many people I feel would not be satisfied with this result in the end. A week of excitement before people catch on and are like "Wait a second, this is a reskinned caster."

The rest of your comment is speculation. Yea, maybe at some point in the future before this game dies BLU will be able to play with the rest of the kids on the playground. For the meantime, have fun with your solo content.

Probably will actually have fun. I wasnt lookign forward to BLU, but its more stuff for me to do so Ill give it a try and make a solid judgement of how good/bad it is then. Sucks that people are so bitter that theyre more concerned with outrage and choosing to be upset rather than just taking a hot minute and thinking things through and just holding reservations till we actually get to play it.

Cause seriously, A lot of us who are talking about this in "Defense of SE" are merely saying that logically it would be incredibly hard to balance without some major caveats, and that "Hey, let it come out and see what happens." Where as the other side is 'losing it' and behaving like this is some great travesty that must be rectified. Just wait till it comes out and then make judgements. If its pure suck, then by all means, lay it out detail by detail and yell at SE to fix it.