Blue Mage might actually be a good thing.

[JBee]

Let's say you 36 RDM and want to run a dungeon for exp. Your highest available is Cutter's Cry. Your best bet to run that dungeon is to find 3 other people willing to run it, since you do not want to use roulette and get stuck in a lower lvl dungeon like Sastasha. If your friend the 64 DRK goes, they will get next to nothing for their time, other than the feel goods of helping. Which that's all well and fine, sure. But no in game incentive - since the level is so far below them it would be adding a teaspoon of water to a bowl full. There are people out there who would be willing yes, but if you thought queuing as a dps took forever, this will be potentially much, much worse. Same for trials, but instead of 3 people, there are 7. At least with trials there is some interest - people going for ponies and crafting items - something. As for LotA? Good luck if it's even at all possible.

1 - The leveling roulette would still give the bonus, even if you landed in the lower dungeon of Sastasha.

2 - Big difference in that in your example of the 36 RDM asking the DRK to go along.... if the DRK wasn't into it, they could still queue in solo for a group. The BLU cannot. Otherwise, they would just queue for leveling roulette to begin with.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

1 - The leveling roulette would still give the bonus, even if you landed in the lower dungeon of Sastasha.

2 - Big difference in that in your example of the 36 RDM asking the DRK to go along.... if the DRK wasn't into it, they could still queue in solo for a group. The BLU cannot. Otherwise, they would just queue for leveling roulette to begin with.

Oh, I thought this was about people who are jerks and don't want to help their friends with BLU.

Also, reminder that there's several pre-50 dungeons available with the Squadron.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Oh, I thought this was about people who are jerks and don't want to help their friends with BLU.

Also, reminder that there's several pre-50 dungeons available with the Squadron.

Maybe they want to do something else than spend potentially hours farming Shiva EX? What terrible people they are! Keep in mind, learning abilities is entirely RNG dependent. Therefore, it could take several attempts before you actually learn anything.

[BillyKaplan]

Maybe they want to do something else than spend potentially hours farming Shiva EX? What terrible people they are! Keep in mind, learning abilities is entirely RNG dependent. Therefore, it could take several attempts before you actually learn anything.

I hope they're generous with certain RNG. I mean, you can't exactly use DF for it but imagine a worst case scenario where people don't want to unsync it, or worse - that you can't learn skills unsynced (PLEASE DON'T DO THIS SE). Depending on party, clearing the content alone is enough of a gamble, it'll be worse if you don't get the Shiva skill after that.
Regular mobs can have worse rng, but not impossibly so. I think that would be fair. But extreme bosses? Heaven forbids, needing to learn something from an S rank? Please let those skills be nigh guaranteed, no one wants to burn weeks of trying to spawn Agrippa the Mighty just to get that last skill only to not have RNG favor them.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

Maybe they want to do something else than spend potentially hours farming Shiva EX? What terrible people they are! Keep in mind, learning abilities is entirely RNG dependent. Therefore, it could take several attempts before you actually learn anything.

How's that any different than farming primal dogs in the current Primals? Why is that OK, but helping out a BLU is being looked at as if it's an excruciating task and BLUs are awful people for submitting their friends to that? Why are people arguing from the viewpoint that the DRK isn't playing with his BLU too and will ask the first BLU for help next?

I'm not saying people are forced to help BLUs, btw. But why are people talking as if friends helping out BLUs is some outlandish concept?

[Duskane]

How's that any different than farming primal dogs in the current Primals? Why is that OK, but helping out a BLU is being looked at as if it's an excruciating task and BLUs are awful people for submitting their friends to that? Why are people arguing from the viewpoint that the DRK isn't playing with his BLU too and will ask the first BLU for help next?

the difference is with Farming primal mounts(horses since blue mage will be stuck with 50< duties) people want to kill them asap avoiding enrage mechanics,
blue needs to wait for the spell to occur and be hit by it,
the benefit to it is the Primals and raid bosses on a script and actually a guaranteed chance for the enemy to do the move unlike FF11
but getting a group to coordinate like that is slim.
its all good if you have a couple of buds to help you but its still extremely flawed idea.

i wont be surprised when there are primal horse mount farm groups that blue will be locked out.

[Alien_Gamer]

blue needs to wait for the spell to occur and be hit by it

They clarified during the live letter the blu only needs to see the attack and kill the mob for The chance to learn it. The blu does not need to get hit by it.

[kikix12]

the difference is with Farming primal mounts(horses since blue mage will be stuck with 50< duties) people want to kill them asap avoiding enrage mechanics,

If you're doing it synced, it is completely irrelevant. There's no way to skip most attacks (and those attacks that can be skipped are not something you'll be able to learn anyway, most likely) when synced. If done unsynced, there is no such thing as "fearing enrage" in there. EX primals of lvl50 take ~2:30-4:00 minutes to kill solo by Red Mage. There is literally zero reason why they couldn't wait for an attack. And if someone in a "Blue Mage learning party" doesn't wait for the attack that the Blue Mage wants to learn in the first place...kick and forget about that players existence.

[Duskane]

If you're doing it synced, it is completely irrelevant. There's no way to skip most attacks (and those attacks that can be skipped are not something you'll be able to learn anyway, most likely) when synced. If done unsynced, there is no such thing as "fearing enrage" in there. EX primals of lvl50 take ~2:30-4:00 minutes to kill solo by Red Mage.

but who does Sync'd lv 50 ex primal (and by enrage mechanics i mean like doing too much DPS avoiding ads on Fights like Ifirt and ramuh)
and even if you have a RDM or Tank help you then duo ifrit ex as an example the blue mage is just gonna be alright just there as dead weight as basically someone else does the work for you so you can have a chance at learning a spell.

[Melichoir]

No, it was a directly reply. Read again.

Battle classes should be able to participate in battle content.

Currently, Blue mage can participate in Battle content. Just not current content. So this is a silly point to make.

And technically gathering and crafting classes have more involvement in End Game Raiding than Blue Mage is currently scheduled to, so that's just another grasping-at-straws argument to try and defend SE's direction on this.

What does Fishing have to do with End game raids? While crafted gear is a definite avenue for end game raids (and typically BiS), gathering itself is only connected to end game raiding by the virtue crafters need materials. But not everything a crafter does is for raiding, which means that Gathering isnt always done for the sake of raid. And to reiterate - Not everything has to be done for teh sake of End Game Raiding. There are crafters who dont craft end game raid gear. And thats fine.

Kinda funny that for every one of you coming to SE's defense for this there's 10 more that are either questioning it or outright saying it's a bad move.

Just because there is an outrage mob, doesnt mean their position is correct. Most of us "Defending" SE are thinking about why they made a design choice and trying to understand it from what we have in the game. A lot of the outrage Ive seen personally see the choice they made as some personal slight, and as complete incompetance, but the only half decent arguments they can come up with is "Its an MMO" and "Just dumb it down so I can play it in current end game content." The latter point is really bothersome, because its pretty much saying "I care more about the name of the class, and not the idea of it.". Or more simply, this argument sounds more like people just want to play something named Blue Mage, and not the iteration of it thats been asked for time and time again on places like these forums or reddit.

This is an important point because people are getting upset at the idea they cant raid with it, rather than getting excited theyll get to play BLU in FFXIV. And to nip the "I want to just play with friends!" argument in the bud, you still can. You just cant do it on BLU for end game content. Cause realistically speaking, do you think people would be totally cool with BLU if it played 100% exactly like BLM, except instead of auto learning your skills or doing a class quest, you go out and find a monster and have learn its ability? That is BLU in teh very basic barebones format, and many people I feel would not be satisfied with this result in the end. A week of excitement before people catch on and are like "Wait a second, this is a reskinned caster."

The rest of your comment is speculation. Yea, maybe at some point in the future before this game dies BLU will be able to play with the rest of the kids on the playground. For the meantime, have fun with your solo content.

Probably will actually have fun. I wasnt lookign forward to BLU, but its more stuff for me to do so Ill give it a try and make a solid judgement of how good/bad it is then. Sucks that people are so bitter that theyre more concerned with outrage and choosing to be upset rather than just taking a hot minute and thinking things through and just holding reservations till we actually get to play it.

Cause seriously, A lot of us who are talking about this in "Defense of SE" are merely saying that logically it would be incredibly hard to balance without some major caveats, and that "Hey, let it come out and see what happens." Where as the other side is 'losing it' and behaving like this is some great travesty that must be rectified. Just wait till it comes out and then make judgements. If its pure suck, then by all means, lay it out detail by detail and yell at SE to fix it.