Trusts and squadron

[chrismercenary]

How do you guys feel about the trust system? Is it going to be standalone or part of the squdron system? Or will it replace squadrons?

[WellFooled]

From the limited information we have now, it sounds like a glorified Squadron system. FFXIV already has two seperate systems for combat npc joining us: Squadrons and Companions. Rather than adding a third, I'd prefer for all three to be merged into one master system that keeps all battle npcs under one roof. Allowing chocobos, squadron members, and whatever trust npcs there are to join us in any content, have skill trees, customizable appearance, etc.

But for now, the Trust system isn't something I'm looking forward to. Sounds like it will be another over hyped and under delivered system that's only slightly different from what we have already.

[kikix12]

Eh...Why would your "friends" (NPC's) let you choose their clothes?

Squadron, of course. You are their superior in a stand-alone military cell, you have the right to choose their uniforms. But NPC's?!

Also, the likes of Y'shtola have unique abilities that no one else does. They will probably have them in the trust system as well, to a point. For example Alphinaud with his special Carbuncle. It would not work with squads.

Then there's also the fact that squads level up...NPC's won't most likely. They will have whatever stats are necessary for given content. They will also be programmed to do their job, not be given commands by you. Just like the guys in Scholars quest line. You do give commands to your squadron however because...you are their superior.


These are two different system for a good reason and I don't want them to become one and the same. It would ruin both of them because compromises would need to be made.

[Fawkes]

It sounds like the squadron system, or maybe more like the solo duties where story NPCs help you out. I assume they made it Shadowbringers-only because they are designing each dungeon with the system in mind and programming the NPCs specifically for them. Squadrons are pretty simple and can't really handle mechanics at all.

I probably would have preferred they expanded on Squadrons, I assume this means they'll never add to squadrons again. And I don't know if I like them using the name, Trusts in FFXI are more like if your squadron worked like a chocobo companion and could be called wherever, but Trusts in FFXIV sound like they will be very limited.

[WellFooled]

Eh...Why would your "friends" (NPC's) let you choose their clothes?

Squadron, of course. You are their superior in a stand-alone military cell, you have the right to choose their uniforms. But NPC's?!

Also, the likes of Y'shtola have unique abilities that no one else does. They will probably have them in the trust system as well, to a point. For example Alphinaud with his special Carbuncle. It would not work with squads.

Then there's also the fact that squads level up...NPC's won't most likely. They will have whatever stats are necessary for given content. They will also be programmed to do their job, not be given commands by you. Just like the guys in Scholars quest line. You do give commands to your squadron however because...you are their superior.


These are two different system for a good reason and I don't want them to become one and the same. It would ruin both of them because compromises would need to be made.

I hadn't heard anything about the Trust system characters being fully autonomous, without the ability to level up, do you have a reference you can give for this?

[Bonbori]

One thing I think this system really really needs is massively improved tank AI, or barring that, Pet controls specifically for tank so at least we could micro the most important member of our team. Other roles... whatever, but tanking? It needs to be perfect. Nothing short of perfect is acceptable. Tank squaddies, as they are currently implemented, are terrible and for the best example of why, one only needs to run The Vault with a squadron. You can't set marching order so you're always the first thing that scripted-aggro NPCs jump on and that's... bad, and even if you survive the initial rush, the AoE spam that's the most efficient way to clear those hordes constantly rips aggro away from the tank.

Speaking of which, Tank NPCs need to generate a lot more aggro. It's unacceptable that squadron tanks can't compete with a rudimentary Scatter spam, and they have absolutely no chance against a properly executed single-target DPS rotation. More often than not, when I'm running a mission as DPS, I end up either having to tank or limit my damage output which makes the run incredibly slow.

TL;DR: Tanks need better AI and/or micro controls, and they need to generate respectable amount of threat.

There's also something that bothers me about the announcement of Trusts. Don't get me wrong, I love the idea, I've wanted it forever because I like soloing stuff, I like pet classes in other MMOs and I used to play SWTOR for a long time which has always had a pretty competent NPC companion system. But... as much as I love having NPC companions in the open world, I'm very concerned about putting them in dungeons because, in my mind, it implies that unless they can make the AI pass the Turing test, they will have to design the SHB dungeons in a way that makes it possible to beat with only Trustees. Which... could potentially be detrimental to the challenge level, complexity and potential to have creative combat mechanics?

Some of my favourite bosses in the game right now are Tsukuyomi, Suzaku, the final Arboretum (Hard) boss and the safety-dance-boss from Bardam's Mettle. Tsukuyomi is just such a... beautiful dance, it's so well choreographed, I LOVE the design of that fight and I wish every fight in the game was so active and dynamic. Suzaku made the background of the map an integral part of the fight, showing the solution to the positioning puzzle that has to be solved in the midst of combat, Tokkapchi forces players to constantly mind their positioning as well as the positioning of the mud slime, keeping them on their toes and with one eye always on the slime. And Bardam is unique because it's a boss fight that doesn't involve fighting and it focuses entirely on reading the battlefield to figure out where to go next.

SB introduced some really fun fights that show there can be more to combat than just fighting. Environment and background can be part of combat too, players can be made to multitask solving a riddle while keeping up their rotation, there can be complications that force someone to drop what they're doing and respond to an emergency. All things that make fights more interesting and keep players awake.

But... can this be reconciled with the limitations of the game's AI? It's not hard to make AI teammates move to a specific spot upon a specific trigger (and we saw an attempt at that during the solo Lakshmi fight) but what about mechanics that require situational awareness? Reading the fight? Predicting what's about to happen? Responding to unexpected events? Performing triage/making choices? Will the dungeons still offer groups of players new and engaging challenges, creative mechanics that keep us from going on autopilot? Or will they have to make compromises in order to make the Trustees capable of clearing those dungeons?

[Duskane]

I just hope they are not like ff11 trust nor does it allow you to use dead,out of action,busy with story npcs

In ff11 they are soulless husk you summon with the npc personality not actually them,
I dont want to summon thancred as a companion when thancred is sneaking around the empire.

I like Excenmille in ff11 but its odd i can summon him as a child to help me fight

[Dirwen]

A healer trust is way more reliable than heals from choco companion. At least I hope so.

[Duskane]

A healer trust is way more reliable than heals from choco companion. At least I hope so.

Chocobo cant run out of MP
But a trust can

[kikix12]

I hadn't heard anything about the Trust system characters being fully autonomous, without the ability to level up, do you have a reference you can give for this?

Only "logic". Square Enix said that the trusts are supposed to ease players into new content, teach the party flow etc. That's impossible if the game will assume the players are the superiors in the new dungeon and depend on their inputs to command. Commanding them on top of doing your job is actually harder than it is to just play your role.

And if they needed to level then the system would be kind of pointless since almost no one will bother leveling their trusts to do the new content if doing it with people can give you the win faster even in a bad party or long queue.