Blue mage at patch 4.5

[Fyce]

3 jobs would have been better, but that's OK. Let's settle for less when we could have had more!

The BLU they introduced doesn't need anyway near the same amount of balance regular jobs do. It uses already existing animations/skills. Being limited to Lv.50 drastically reduce the concerns about how this job would play in up-to-date content. Therefore, the amount of work needed to make BLU as it is now is very likely much less than trying to shoehorn it into the usual mould. This means that there's absolutly no evidence to say that we could've had BLU as a third "regular job" if it wasn't made the way it is today. Besides, implying that getting only 2 jobs instead of 3 is "getting less" is completly putting aside all the content provided for BLU. We are not getting less content. We are getting different content.

The ONLY identity for blue mage that's been consistent is that it learns abilities from monsters, then uses them on their own. They have never had a full carnival sidestory, and they've never been excluded from participating in the game itself. You can bring Quistis or Quina or Kimarhi with you the whole game.

That is an incomplete description of what a Blue Mage is about, and doesn't take into account all of the very weird and situational skills they could use.
Aqua Breath is useful on enemies weak to water. That's why you learned that skill, and why you'd choose to use it. Making it a skill that "deals magic damage" -like every other magic spell in this game ultimatly is (Aka. "Fire" doesn't deal "Fire" damage)- would completly defeat the point of the BLU having an arsenal of situational skills that you have to use correctly.

It would likely take less work to do that than to do the Carnivale and balancing that. The difference is BLU in relevant content is a better long-term option than being relegated to content that'll last, at most, about 6 months (and only because people will be bored as hell with nothing new coming after 4.5.)

See the first paragraph regarding "balance".
As for the content limited in time, FFXIV is absolutly full of it. There's a metric ton of content that people aren't doing today, but that was fun to do when it came out. Besides, they said that they would increase BLU level cap with time, meaning that new content would be regularly added for it. Saying "it'll only last 6 month" out of the blue without any argument/evidence to prove that claim holds no ground.

[Fawkes]

Aqua Breath is useful on enemies weak to water. That's why you learned that skill, and why you'd choose to use it. Making it a skill that "deals magic damage" -like every other magic spell in this game ultimatly is (Aka. "Fire" doesn't deal "Fire" damage)- would completly defeat the point of the BLU having an arsenal of situational skills that you have to use correctly.

That's elemental resistance, and it is not specific to Blue Mage, I would equate it more with Black Mage than anything. SE already decided they didn't care about elemental weakness in this game when they gave us a neutered pyromanic Black Mage. In past FFs casting fire on a fire mob would do less damage or even heal it, but not here. The devs are the ones that threw that system out and designed a game where it doesn't matter. You can't suddenly pretend it's important for Blue Mage only. If they aren't redesigning the entire game to have elemental weaknesses and give Black Mage the full elemental wheel, then that argument is going to fall on deaf ears.

[Fyce]

That's elemental resistance, and it is not specific to Blue Mage, I would equate it more with Black Mage than anything. SE already decided they didn't care about elemental weakness in this game when they gave us a neutered pyromanic Black Mage. In past FFs casting fire on a fire mob would do less damage or even heal it, but not here. The devs are the ones that threw that system out and designed a game where it doesn't matter. You can't suddenly pretend it's important for Blue Mage only. If they aren't redesigning the entire game to have elemental weaknesses and give Black Mage the full elemental wheel, then that argument is going to fall on deaf ears.

You are explaining what I already know, and are completly missing my point.
Besides, as you said, we already have Black Mage that have been stripped from its iconic use of elemental weaknesses. We don't need another one.

Which is why they decided to try and keep the iconic aspect of BLU. But that required it being put aside from the current roster, and it getting dedicated content, because FFXIV doesn't work with elemental weaknesses and all that stuff BLU is mostly about. Just take a look at a wiki list of all Blue Magic that was used in the franchise. Now try to count the number of skills which simply wouldn't work in FFXIV without heavy tweeking.

Edit post limit:

So? Look at a wiki list of Black Magic that was used in the franchise. They tweeked plenty. Blue Mage shouldn't get special treatment just so it can end up being a less useable job.

Why not? Who are you to say that every playable job ever should be heavily tweeked to fit the mould? Who are you to kill the creativity of breaking rules and getting outside the usual mainstream content?
We've been asking for new and original content that breaks the usual formula for ages. That's exactly what we got. And now you want to get back into strictly respecting the formula? People never know what they want it seems.

Wha- no, no it's not. Blue Mage is literally, and only ever has been, about learning skills from enemies and then using it back at them.

Oh yeah, let me use Aqua Breath on a Water resistant enemy. Let me use Bad Breath on an enemy immune to status effects. Let me use Death Lv.5 on a level 42 enemy. Let my use Goblin Punch on an enemy not sharing my level. Let me use Magic hammer on an enemy without MP to steal. Let me use Level.? Holy on enemies not having a level which is a multiple of the last digit of how much gil I have...
Blue magic was always about weird situational skills that are very much conditionnal and should be used only in the right situation. All that while managing your MP in order not to burn it by only using the most powerful stuff you have.
Blue magic isn't about having a set rotation and a fixed number of skills. That'd be for a Boring Mage, not a Blue Mage. And we have a bunch of Boring Mages already.

That is what you do with blue magic. "Learning skills from monsters" is only a part of that gameplay. Ignoring the rest is a great disservice to that iconic job with its very special gameplay.
Maybe you would be okay with a butchered Blue Mage and Blue Magic. I wouldn't.

[Fawkes]

Which is why they decided to try and keep the iconic aspect of BLU. But that required it being put aside from the current roster, and it getting dedicated content, because FFXIV doesn't work with elemental weaknesses and all that stuff BLU is mostly about.

It is not iconic to BLU, it is iconic to the Final Fantasy series as a whole, and the developers of this game already chose to ignore it. For them to act like now it has to be there for BLU is spitting in the face of people who wanted it for BLM.

Just take a look at a wiki list of all Blue Magic that was used in the franchise. Now try to count the number of skills which simply wouldn't work in FFXIV without heavy tweeking.

So? Look at a wiki list of Black Magic that was used in the franchise. They tweeked plenty. Blue Mage shouldn't get special treatment just so it can end up being a less useable job.

[Powercow]

Which is why they decided to try and keep the iconic aspect of BLU. But that required it being put aside from the current roster, and it getting dedicated content, because FFXIV doesn't work with elemental weaknesses and all that stuff BLU is mostly about.

Wha- no, no it's not. Blue Mage is literally, and only ever has been, about learning skills from enemies and then using it back at them. Every time Blue Mage has shown up, it has been slightly different (or radically, in the case of Enemy Skill materia) than its previous incarnations. Sometimes it requires using an item to learn the skill, sometimes you need to kill the enemy, sometimes you need to eat the enemy, sometimes you need to be hit with the skill... but the one constant is that you learn skills, then use them. FFXIV is going with the see-it-kill-it approach, which is fine, that fits the mold.

But FFXIV Blue Mage isn't even really Blue Mage. Were BLUs ever super duper flexible godtier OP characters that couldn't be used in the rest of the game? No. They never have been. (Yes in 11 they were pretty damn strong, but they weren't so strong the devs barred them from current content.) This is a change in design from what Blue Mage has been to something radically different for FFXIV. If anything this version of Blue Mage has *less* in common with every other version outside of that one time the job became an item.

[Cidel]

I had a long response typed-out for how this whole BLU situation feels to me, but it's kind of hard to articulate. So I just finished deleting that essay (for another thread, some other time perhaps...) and I'll do my best at just consolidating my opinions with much shorter, to-the-point statements.

I am somewhere between disappointed and dull surprise with how they are handling Bluemage. Disappointed, because (thus far) nobody can ever say "I'm a BLU main" or play it in relevant content with randoms due to restrictions of the status of being "limited." Dull surprise, because while actually letting BLUs collect spells outside of job quests, of course they'd turn around with a big "BUT-" because them leaving it at that would actually require extra work and balancing. One interview with Yoshi-P a while back even foreshadowed this because he didn't know how to make such a thing with XIV's limitations.

I think restrictions they had to impose on their chosen "vision" of BLU highlights the underlying issues they designed themselves into regarding their battle content. The fact that they think BLU as they designed it would have access to too many "overpowered" spells that they're only willing to allow it in largely irrelevant content makes the whole job sound like a glorified god-mode undersized party mode for the duty-finder. It was their choice to give BLUs access to those potentially problematic spells/abilities in the first place.

I appreciate them having BLU be able to go and collect their spells on their own, but if that was the only way they felt comfortable designing the job's identity after turning BRD into an archer-archetype with limited buffs with flashy music-based flair and SMN being delegated to only 3 unique summons (with no new egis of the other iconic summons- even aesthetically, from ARR launch all the way to the coming-end of this 2nd expansion) but suddenly a strong affinity to Bahamut (and only Bahamut)... then as of now I dunno what more to say about them. It doesn't feel like a new job, it's a sideshow that apparently is designed with game-breaking spells and the freedom the job is designed with permits too many possibilities for bad/new players to apparently ruin group content and they don't want to take steps to make stopgates to moderate/prevent it (as of now).

[Sandpark]

Wha- no, no it's not. Blue Mage is literally, and only ever has been, about learning skills from enemies and then using it back at them. Every time Blue Mage has shown up, it has been slightly different (or radically, in the case of Enemy Skill materia) than its previous incarnations. Sometimes it requires using an item to learn the skill, sometimes you need to kill the enemy, sometimes you need to eat the enemy, sometimes you need to be hit with the skill... but the one constant is that you learn skills, then use them. FFXIV is going with the see-it-kill-it approach, which is fine, that fits the mold.

But FFXIV Blue Mage isn't even really Blue Mage. Were BLUs ever super duper flexible godtier OP characters that couldn't be used in the rest of the game? No. They never have been. (Yes in 11 they were pretty damn strong, but they weren't so strong the devs barred them from current content.) This is a change in design from what Blue Mage has been to something radically different for FFXIV. If anything this version of Blue Mage has *less* in common with every other version outside of that one time the job became an item.

The difference between offline FF Blue and online ones is Blue can play multiple roles in an online game. In FFXI the power did not matter as much because many jobs were OP in certain content. Also you did not have a duty finder dictating what you could or could not enter in group content with. In XIV, the roles are very strict so if Blue stayed true to it's core it could be a tank, healer, or DPS in XIV which says the rule is one role for party content.

Could it be worked around? Sure, but then those OP abilities would be omitted or nerfed beyond high hell. I mean when someone wants to play Blue, is their wish to learn skills from trash monsters in the open world? In XI, most spells were learned from trash monsters in the open world. But many of those trash monsters were actually dangerous depending on your level. There is no open world danger in Eorzea.

• Level 50 Blue: I am fixing to go learn my epic spell!
• Bystander: Where do you learn that?
• Level 50 Blue: I have to go to Rathefrost and fight Plasmoids!
• Bystander: Do you need help?
• Level 50 Blue Mage: Umm, I don't think so?

I remember joing an alliance of Blue in XI to go learn certain spells before the cap was raised past 75.

Edited:
I don't know if you played XIV when some of the relic had unique trials for artifact armor and relic weapons. I think Blue Specific multiplayer content is so everyone else needing it has a good reason to go help you.