Blue mage at patch 4.5

[Burningskull]

Your only argument is only about very new players being unable to read tutorials and understand what the PF is, even after finishing 2.0 and leveled a job to 50.
That's an extremely niche concern to have, especially if you have to assume that the game won't disclose how BLU works and why it's different to new players.
You also completly ignore tools like the Novice network where new players can ask questions about things they don't understand.

That's litteraly the weakest argument against how BLU will be in FFXIV in this entire thread.

That quest can simply start by "Blue Mage is a limited job. Limited jobs are submitted to restrictions regular jobs don't have, and have special content as well as gameplay attached to them. Please, read this tutorial about Blue Mages. [Tutorial opens]".
Problem solved.
Exactly. It's simply side content.
That, on the other hand, is only your own opinion. You can't do "relevant content" with your Squadron. It didn't prevent this side content to exists and be enjoyed by some people.
You say "people want to take BLU in relevant content". Who are you to say what everyone wants? I, for instance, couldn't care less about not being able to raid with a BLU, and I appreciate the system they came up with to make it feel like a true and iconic Blue Mage. So, speak for yourself and yourself only, please.
Besides, we already knew since 4 years ago how BLU was going to be. Or, more to the point, not to be.

Squadron and a Job are two VERY different things. A job should never be meant as just side content since a Class/Job is something you have to be to do 80% of the content in the game. Having said that I guess Crafters are side content as well, but they are not battle classes. And I didn't say everyone I said People. Some People want to take Blue through relevant content and other don't. Again I didn't say everyone just people which means SOME of them.

[Saefinn]

Also, I think with the "freedom" argument, they're not limiting freedom, they're adding to it by saying "you guys can now have Blue Mage, and it'll be a proper Blue Mage" and avoid some of the disappointment people felt with something like Summoner when they couldn't play a summoner true to the FF titles (I still love SMN, but it's not SMN). So this is a new option to the game, whilst by comparison to other jobs there are restrictions, but if you want to avoid those restrictions you still have the choice of another job that works in the more conventional FFXIV way - BLU could have been one of these, but it'd have to sacrifice parts of its identity to pull it off. In fact, where there are restrictions in some areas for Blue Mage, there is freedom in how it is played and configured that is not given to other jobs. I cannot choose my spell list as a SMN or a SCH, now can I do a tank or DPS or healer build for any of my jobs, I cannot change the role my jobs plays nor have anything like the kind versatility or choice that comes with being able to customise your job or how you play it.

What they've done is added a new type of job to work in a more traditional Final Fantasy way, thus adding more choice in getting what people enjoy. But for it to work, to be fair and for balance, it can't have the same parameters. I just hope that SE do right by it and get the balance right, so the restrictions aren't too hefty.

[Fyce]

Squadron and a Job are two VERY different things. A job should never be meant as just side content since a Class/Job is something you have to be to do 80% of the content in the game. Having said that I guess Crafters are side content as well, but they are not battle classes. And I didn't say everyone I said People. Some People want to take Blue through relevant content and other don't. Again I didn't say everyone just people which means SOME of them.

And who are you to say that battle classes should never be created to be side content? Especially one with such a very specific gameplay? It's like saying that Pyros shouldn't exists because there are battle actions specifically designed for that side content, and that you can't use them elsewhere.
Next time you'll say that fishers shouldn't exist because they aren't playing like the other gathering classes and have very specific and dedicated content/gameplay? For me, BLU is to battle classes what fisher is to gathering classes.
You are not the one deciding if something can or cannot be created as side content. Period.
However, you are free to voice your own opinion on the matter, saying if you like it or not. But that's different from stating "A job should never be meant as just side content" like you had any authority in the matter.

Oh and, "people want" is not the same as "some people want". Words have a meaning. Saying "people want" imply that the majority wants something. "Some people want", on the other hand, only speaks about a specific group of people, which might even be a tiny minority. But you didn't say "some people want", because it'd have less impact than a big generality like "people want". It might sound pedantic, but it's simply me catching you using a false/weak argument to put more weight on your end than you actually have.
Why is that important? Because when you have a debate with someone, and you use something vague like "some people wanted BLU to be that way!", a very simple counter-argument saying the opposite is exactly as valid as yours: "but other people didn't wanted BLU to be what you described." And boom. There goes your argument.

[JBee]

...so the restrictions aren't too hefty.

I would consider only allowing you into instanced content - you know, where the majority of the game takes place - by way of a fully premade group as too hefty.

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.
You can put a blue mask on a minigame, but it's still a minigame.

I haven't been this disappointed in a company's decision for an mmo in a very long time.

[Berethos]

You can put a blue mask on a minigame, but it's still a minigame.

By that token, you can put a blue mask on a regular caster with a set spell selection, but it's still not a Blue Mage.

[Saefinn]

I would consider only allowing you into instanced content - you know, where the majority of the game takes place - by way of a fully premade group as too hefty.

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.
You can put a blue mask on a minigame, but it's still a minigame.

I haven't been this disappointed in a company's decision for an mmo in a very long time.

Perhaps I come too much from the stand point of running content with my FC & friends and when I've done endgame content, it has been through party finder. 24 man raids I can see being impacted badly, but that was not really in the forefront of my mind thinking about this as I've hated and avoided Return to Ivalice (despite loving FFXII). I still have my reservations about it, I am hoping for the better case scenario. Maybe the effect of all this is that people end up using the Party Finder more, which some regions do.

Whilst I am still in two minds, I am not seeing it as the doom and gloom it is painted as. We'll have to see how this actually works out in practice, because that is where my scepticism lies, because history has shown that SE don't always get it right in practice, as one who though Eureka was a great idea, but hate how it was implemented whereby they became glorified fate trians.

But if I can do content as a premade group and can still do it via party finder and get a job that I enjoy and love playing and feels like a true blue mage, then I may (whilst begrudgingly) take the hit that I can't use duty finder for it. Of course, the job will have to be worth it in the end.

[KisaiTenshi]

Level 5 death would work against EVERY end-game boss because every endgame boss is level 50, 60 or 70.

Or they could easily be immune. Just like MAJORITY of FF bosses who legit imuned to death such as fate boss

Which defeats the purpose of having it. Dead skill. May as well not even have it.

My point, in response to the previous poster was that "L5 Death" only worked because the players and the monsters/bosses were level 50/60/70 at end, and it would be unusable for all the leveling content between those. So why would you equip a skill that you works only on trash mobs on the 50/60/70 end game content. You wouldn't if you had something else that could steamroll over them.

My favorite "cheat" in FF6 was the vanish/x-zone(Warp/Banish) which I was not aware was an actual bug, but because it worked on everything. That was because Vanish was not supposed to be cast on monsters. Whoops. Once that cat was let out of the bag, that was de-facto strategy. In FFV, a similar strategy worked by raising the level of the monster using a certain skill and then L5 Death. Whoops that was probably not the intended effect, casing a buff on the monster first.

The problem with BLU, as we currently *think* it will work, is naively assuming players won't find a way to use BLU in a way that developers had not intended, and it becomes de-facto strategy.

[Beckett]

Blue mage was never going to work as a main job, not without fundamentally betraying what that job is about, which is learning abilities from monsters.

Red Mage was never going to work as a main job, not without fundamentally betraying what that job is about, which is using damage magic, healing magic, and melee combat in equal measure.

[JBee]

By that token, you can put a blue mask on a regular caster with a set spell selection, but it's still not a Blue Mage.

Completely agree with this comment.

There's no reason why a happy medium couldn't have been found, instead of doubling down and limiting a job that so many people have been looking forward to.

- Make certain abilities not work in dungeons
- Make certain abilities not work in raids
- Make certain abilities unable to be used on Bosses
- Give the job some skills as they level up, with either the skills enhanced/changed or added to via monster encounters
- Limit the potency of certain abilities in roulettes

I don't mind something new; frankly if they wanted to add a solo job like this they would have been better off adding the Beastmaster instead.

[Arkdra]

I feel bad for all of you people who were super excited to main switch to blu.

But on the other hand, that isn't me. I did not care about blu at all before the reveal. Everything they announced seems pretty exciting to me and have elevated a job that I would have leveled to cap and ignored to something that I can see putting a lot of time into. This is all pending implementation hangups (learned abilities being rare come the hell on), but otherwise I am stoked. And honestly, more excited for this than anything put into this game since heavensward, and I am saying that as someone that plays as sam and rdm 90% of the time.