Concise Tank Balance Changes

[Lyth]

Could just be me, but I understood that post to mean "Don't copy over actions on to jobs simply for the purposes of giving that job a competitive equivalent." Which is very different from "Don't create an action that in any way resembles another action already in the game."

The former actually makes sense. Let's use the change to Shake it off in 4.2 as an example. The problem wasn't that Divine Veil was already in the game. If anything, I feel like Veil's design could be further improved on by taking notes from Shake it off, just like Shield Swipe was improved on by taking notes from HW Reprisal. If something works well from a design perspective, it makes sense to take note of it. The problem was that players went to the devs with Shake it off and said "We don't like this action, where is our Divine Veil equivalent?" The correct response to that is: "Why do you always need to have an equivalent?" The problem wasn't the end point. The problem was in the process.

The latter, of course, is so absurd that it's not even worth expending the effort of posting counter-examples. I think you actually made it harder for yourself by forcing yourself to prove that Reprisal was identical to Haymaker. The reason you had to omit mentioning Shield Swipe (which is the more obvious analogue than the obscure Haymaker) was because Swipe ended up being changed to become closer to Reprisal. The whole thing was an unnecessary stretch.

What was the easier response? Well, Reprisal, Delirium, and Scourge are all Actions. You press a button and something happens. Didn't other jobs have those first?

[Kabooa]

What was the easier response? Well, Reprisal, Delirium, and Scourge are all Actions. You press a button and something happens. Didn't other jobs have those first?

Shield Swipe's current iteration is actually my problem with OGCDs in general. "If it lit, hit." Shield Swipe in its old iteration was a stopgap, used primarily to manage TP with minimal potency loss (As it was less than the average). The pacify was useful, but like most other interesting effects, most things were and are immune to it.

That is why I used Haymaker. Shield Swipe just became the ability i want to see less of. Blind spam whenever it's up. I can't say "Well it should have been like Shield Swipe" because even Shield Swipe decided it didn't want to be Shield Swipe. Haymaker at least had the grace to bow out completely.

And it's both. We need action diversity, and with those diverse actions, they should hold up to one another. Though thinking on it, you technically could put Scourge back in and it'd be "unique" if only because all the others got removed too, but I don't find anything all that interesting about hitting a DoT every 30 seconds.

Butthat'sjustmyopinionman.jpeg

[Shurrikhan]

Shield Swipe's current iteration is actually my problem with OGCDs in general. "If it lit, hit." Shield Swipe in its old iteration was a stopgap, used primarily to manage TP with minimal potency loss (As it was less than the average). The pacify was useful, but like most other interesting effects, most things were and are immune to it.

Agreed. I so badly wanted them to do just about anything else with Shield Swipe. I feel like it was so close to living up to at least something, especially in dungeoning. Even before, at a 2.4 GCD, it would allow you not to clip your Goring Blade (previously 24 seconds' duration), which was at least of mild use. Instead it really did become almost obligatory to hit it as soon as possible, as long as you wouldn't have to wait 25% of its CD to give it another use within Fight or Flight. (Admittedly, I did get a tiny little grin out of the third use in the FoF window if I got (the old version of) Spear.)

And it's both. We need action diversity, and with those diverse actions, they should hold up to one another. Though thinking on it, you technically could put Scourge back in and it'd be "unique" if only because all the others got removed too, but I don't find anything all that interesting about hitting a DoT every 30 seconds.

It's less that it was a DoT, and more that it hit for a ton. Think of it like Deathflare: It's pretty, it's huge damage, and it gave a niche advantage. (SMN briefly became the god of (wasteful) PvP burst and remained the god of AoE. And of most things caster-related. DRK, in turn, became the master of cleave-damage among tanks; Decimate was barely a bonus, and Fracture extremely limited, and Paladin's FoF-Goring Blade spread and 10 AoE pps off Circle of Scorn were no joke, exactly, Salted Earth, Scourge, and Dark Passenger let DRK revel in lower-count AoE.)