The whale mount is up on Mogstation

[Hestzhyen]

If people want to waste their money that's their business. I hate the cash shop so I will never use it. And yes I'm annoyed to see yet another potential in-game incentive/reward aim for people who have no idea what digital goods are really worth. Very on the nose at least this time.

That said, when are we going to get more achievement/longevity rewards? I have tons and tons of points sitting around and nothing to spend them on since the claw mount was released (which hardly made a dent). Another mount- especially a two-seater- would be great to have.

[Skivvy]

If people want to waste their money that's their business. I hate the cash shop so I will never use it. And yes I'm annoyed to see yet another potential in-game incentive/reward aim for people with no idea what digital good are really worth. Very on the nose at least this time.

That said, when are we going to get more achievement/longevity rewards? I have tons and tons of points sitting around and nothing to spend them on since the claw mount was released (which hardly made a dent). Another mount- especially a two-seater- would be great to have.

The thing is, it's not wasting their money to the people who are buying it. Also, buying a $30 mount does not make someone a whale. I was sitting in Rhalgar's reach for awhile earlier, and it seemed that someone made the "whale for whales" comment at least once every five minutes. All I can think is:



But anyway, as I've mentioned above, I'm really not a fan of the cash shop in this game. I'm also not a fan of many things that XIV has to offer, and I've been vocal about that as well. It's taken me quite a long time, but I've come to the realization that this game, and the cash shop, are pretty set in their ways. They're not going to suddenly make a drastic change to the cash shop or the content they deliver just because I'm unhappy about it. So I get to choose if I still find this game (and by extension the cash shop) enjoyable enough to continue spending money on.

When the cash shop was just becoming a thing, I was incredibly vocal about how I thought it was setting a very bad precedent. And I continued to voice that concern for a very long time. However, at this point, I have accepted the fact that SE and XIV are not going to be my ideal game, and they will continue down the path that they're on. I sub now and then when I feel like it, and I buy an item when I feel like it. Perhaps you will count this as a win for SE, and maybe it is. But sadly it's the way games are these days. Cash shops, DLC, etc. It's everywhere. Oh i'll still complain when I feel the need, but I'm not going to beat myself up over buying an item if I feel like it. I also hate killing any sort of animal or insect, but I eat meat all the time. Life is full of weird hypocritical moments.

So yeah, at this point, I'm personally all fine and dandy if people want to insult SE over their cash-grab ways, but I'm not a fan of insulting players for buying things if it makes them happy.


Cheers on going off on a weird tangent. lawl.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

If people want to waste their money that's their business. I hate the cash shop so I will never use it. And yes I'm annoyed to see yet another potential in-game incentive/reward aim for people who have no idea what digital goods are really worth. Very on the nose at least this time.

That said, when are we going to get more achievement/longevity rewards? I have tons and tons of points sitting around and nothing to spend them on since the claw mount was released (which hardly made a dent). Another mount- especially a two-seater- would be great to have.

This carries the assumption Cash Shop items were ever going to be rewards to begin with. They aren't. They are designed for one singular purpose: to make a profit.

Riddle me this. Everyone whining about the Cash Shop views it as a greedy tactic from SE, yes? Okay. What is a greedy company like SE more likely to do in the event people actually did boycott the Cash Shop?

- Decide to release all future exclusive mounts in the game for free
- Determinate the team who designs these Cash Shop exclusives are better utilized on another project, thus the exclusive mounts and etc simply stop being made

I'll give you a hint, it isn't the free option.

It's double dipping, and people are falling for it. In the past, a subscription meant that you would gain access to everything the game has to offer. That's not the case anymore, because companies have realized they can get people to double dip.

Name one industry in the entire world that has remained exactly the same spanning over decades. "In the past," games cost substantially less to make. FFX cost approximately $34 million whereas many triple A titles nowadays broach the $100 million mark. You can't look to ten ago and say, "well that's how it used to be. So it better never change!"

This is what triple A games looked like in 1999



And this is in 2013 and 2018, respectively



Hmm, I wonder what changed...

[Liam_Harper]

Riddle me this. Everyone whining about the Cash Shop views it as a greedy tactic from SE, yes? Okay. What is a greedy company like SE more likely to do in the event people actually did boycott the Cash Shop?

- Decide to release all future exclusive mounts in the game for free

No need to exaggerate. Few people expect Enix to release all future cash shop mounts ingame for free. Nor do we expect them not to have a cash shop. Some of us even prefer it, it's like donating to the company as a thank you for creating a game we enjoy. There's nothing wrong with buying the Whale.

The complaints source from the fact that Enix has a far bigger cash shop than other subscription MMO's and is one of the few large subscription MMO's to lock bank space, alts and their mobile app behind microtransactions. People start to feel annoyed when they continually stuff things into the inflated cash shop while throwing Pagos at us as content.

Overall it's excessive. In fact, that's a good question for those who feel it's fine, how much would Enix have to tie to microtransaction for you to view it as excessive? For example if all mounts besides your chocobo were cash shop exclusive, or glamour prisms, or the gold saucer? They're all optional after all.

[Yshnal]

This carries the assumption Cash Shop items were ever going to be rewards to begin with. They aren't. They are designed for one singular purpose: to make a profit.

Riddle me this. Everyone whining about the Cash Shop views it as a greedy tactic from SE, yes? Okay. What is a greedy company like SE more likely to do in the event people actually did boycott the Cash Shop?

- Decide to release all future exclusive mounts in the game for free
- Determinate the team who designs these Cash Shop exclusives are better utilized on another project, thus the exclusive mounts and etc simply stop being made

I'll give you a hint, it isn't the free option.



Name one industry in the entire world that has remained exactly the same spanning over decades. "In the past," games cost substantially less to make. FFX cost approximately $34 million whereas many triple A titles nowadays broach the $100 million mark. You can't look to ten ago and say, "well that's how it used to be. So it better never change!"

This is what triple A games looked like in 1999



And this is in 2013 and 2018, respectively



Hmm, I wonder what changed...

FFXIV -this very same game- survived perfectly fine and even saved SE from bankruptcy without the cash shop (including extra retainers, phone app, etc.), doing it after being a failure and an economic black hole during it's rebuilding. On top of that, back then we got more content and with better quality, and all glamour, minions and mounts were obtainable in-game. Also, event rewards were available the next year for gil, we got plenty of them, and without housing stuff that a lot of people can't use. On top of that we had the veteran program offering exclusive items, which now is gone (this is important when thinking about the cashshop stuff, and the ways that the game uses to keep people playing nowadays). And with all that, as I said, this game was financially successful and even funding other projects.

Now re-evaluate what the person that you quoted said because, with all due respect, what you said makes no sense. FFXIV is not in a better shape than it was pre-cash shop, nor offers us more stuff. Quite the opposite, in fact, as I listed up there. So, in light of that, it's either what MomomiMomi said, or that they're plainly incompetent in using their funds (and this includes many possibilities). Both options are terrible, and no customer should say "oh, everything is alright".

[Bourne_Endeavor]

No need to exaggerate. Few people expect Enix to release all future cash shop mounts ingame for free. Nor do we expect them not to have a cash shop. Some of us even prefer it, it's like donating to the company as a thank you for creating a game we enjoy. There's nothing wrong with buying the Whale.

The complaints source from the fact that Enix has a far bigger cash shop than other subscription MMO's and is one of the few large subscription MMO's to lock bank space, alts and their mobile app behind microtransactions. People start to feel annoyed when they continually stuff things into the inflated cash shop while throwing Pagos at us as content.

Overall it's excessive. In fact, that's a good question for those who feel it's fine, how much would Enix have to tie to microtransaction for you to view it as excessive? For example if all mounts besides your chocobo were cash shop exclusive, or glamour prisms, or the gold saucer? They're all optional after all.

It isn't an exaggeration whatsoever. People whine about every single exclusive item that ever crops up on the Cash Shop. A good portion of people in this very thread want the Cash Shop discontinued entirely and still equally expect all the mounts and glamour to be made available through quests, achievement points and etc, i.e., they want them for free. You can't claim is a greedy company—which I don't deny, by the way—only to turn around and demand they make exclusive Cash Shop things free. Greedy companies don't do that.

As for the size of the Cash Shop. This stems from SE putting old event exclusives on there whereas other MMOs simply render them lost forever. In other MMOs, I couldn't have Lightning's hair or attire because I wasn't playing during her event. It's simply something I won't ever have. SE's solution was to make a profit of this instead of making event items exclusive.

And now who's exaggerating? We've had two exclusive mounts put on the Cash Shop this expansion out of how many free ones? I'll humor the question though and say I'd be less inclined to play if I couldn't obtain any cool outfits or mounts without paying for them. Good thing that hasn't ever been the case in FFXIV. The overwhelming majority of my mount, minion and glamour collections are all in-game items I never had to purchase.

FFXIV -this very same game- survived perfectly fine and even saved SE from bankruptcy without the cash shop (including extra retainers, phone app, etc.), doing it after being a failure and an economic black hole during it's rebuilding. On top of that, back then we got more content and with better quality, and all glamour, minions and mounts were obtainable in-game. Also, event rewards were available the next year for gil, we got plenty of them, and without housing stuff that a lot of people can't use. On top of that we had the veteran program offering exclusive items, which now is gone (this is important when thinking about the cashshop stuff, and the ways that the game uses to keep people playing nowadays). And with all that, as I said, this game was financially successful and even funding other projects.

Now re-evaluate what the person that you quoted said because, with all due respect, what you said makes no sense. FFXIV is not in a better shape than it was pre-cash shop, nor offers us more stuff. Quite the opposite, in fact, as I listed up there. So, in light of that, it's either what MomomiMomi said, or that they're plainly incompetent in using their funds (and this includes many possibilities). Both options are terrible, and no customer should say "oh, everything is alright".

Because a lot of the content back then was already made. They literally had Titan sitting around waiting before the relaunch even started. You're also assuming the relaunch did not put SE in a financial hole. Just because it proved successful doesn't mean they weren't operating under the red line. Best Buy spent almost an entire decade losing money and surviving off debt. Considering the dire state of Square Enix at the time, it's not hard to imagine they weren't in good shape either and were looking to find other ways to profit. We already know the Mogstation paid for the Chaos datacenter. If you want to claim that a lie, by all means, but at this point we're arguing opinions and assumptions, not facts.

Better quality is also very debatable. Heavensward is widely considered the best period of FFXIV's life cycle... and the Cash Shop was in operation a year prior.

Regardless, my point is MomomiMomi is looking at past MMOs and comparing them to current ones. You can't look at FFXI, released in 2003 and expect FFXIV to have similar upkeep and development costs when it released in 2013. Even if they release less, the cost of development has increased substantially. And this spans the whole gaming industry. While some companies do exploit, and I have no doubt SE is among them, an exclusive mount every once in a while means very little.

[Lastelli]

It isn't an exaggeration whatsoever. People whine about every single exclusive item that ever crops up on the Cash Shop. A good portion of people in this very thread want the Cash Shop discontinued entirely and still equally expect all the mounts and glamour to be made available through quests, achievement points and etc, i.e., they want them for free. You can't claim is a greedy company—which I don't deny, by the way—only to turn around and demand they make exclusive Cash Shop things free. Greedy companies don't do that.

I'd just like to have the chance to obtain a 2-seats mount without either having to spend 21€ or having to go through the hell that is the 2000 mentor roulettes achievement.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

The current state of FFXIV is a consequence of how some people were welcoming with open arms everything that SE did with the cash shop without a second thought, and they'll keep pushing the line more and more, while giving less and less. The phone app is a direct consequence of that acceptance. As it's the now gone veteran program, which was offering these same things that nowadays SE tries to sell us in the cash shop (what a nice coincidence, right?). Or how they have no urge to fix the inventory issues because that would mean less income from retainers. I could keep going on, but overall what I'm saying is that the cash shop is affecting the game more than a lot of you think.

Worst thing is that some of us warned people years ago, yet here we are, with so many things gone or not properly fixed.

The current state of the game is because SE diverts funds to other projects. You think that will change without the Cash Shop? In fact, it's far more likely to impact the game worse. For example sake, I'll use simple numbers. Say FFXIV generates 50M a year while 5M comes from the Mogstation. If that 5M were taken away, do you think SE will merely eat this loss... or will Yoshida find himself with a smaller budget for 5.0 to make up the lost income? EA has certainly proven they will opt for the latter every single time. The sheer amount of cut content that was leaked on to Reddit back when BioWare was developing Mass Effect 3 is jaw-dropping. EA didn't give a damn. They wanted the game finished in two years even if it meant cutting content.

When it comes to less content. The Mogstation isn't what will get their attention. Unsubbing from the game entirely will.

I'd just like to have the chance to obtain a 2-seats mount without either having to spend 21€ or having to go through the hell that is the 2000 mentor roulettes achievement.

Now this I agree with. It would be nice to have at least one two-seater mount not locked behind extreme grinds or money. Granted, there is the Amber Draught Chocobo, but even that requires the whole friendship thing.

[Lastelli]

Now this I agree with. It would be nice to have at least one two-seater mount not locked behind extreme grinds or money. Granted, there is the Amber Draught Chocobo, but even that requires the whole friendship thing.

Honestly, I'll be pretty upset if the final doggo mount won't be a 2-seater. I mean...I already know it won't be, but I'm still gonna be upset. Is one single "free" 2-seater mount per expansion asking too much of them? Would too many 2-seater mounts be too much for the servers to handle?