Dev: QOL request

[Erakir]

Whoa whoa whoa.

Aside from MP Economy being one of the only strengths WHM has left to it (please, we don't need any more nails in this coffin than we currently have) no one is struggling that bad with MP. Refresh is powerful since it virtually eliminates ANY concerns at all in regards to MP, which has largely negated that strength WHM has.

I'm one of those players in a static without a BRD/MCH and I feel it, and I see how much our AST feels it (and how our SCH felt it back on Neo). Our monk feels it too (mains AST in another group without refresh). But the content still dies. AST does have to work more with their MP in the absence of a refresh, I admit that, sure. Needs to use their MP conservation/recovery tools more efficiently to keep going than the other two. It completely sucks to die as AST with Lucid still a long ways on CD, too. Sucks bad. If casters are available to mana shift, it really helps if they do sometime in the fight. I know most don't, especially BLMs with how it flubs their DPS rotation, but worth asking 'em (also this has been taught by being used to refresh doing the work for them). Your MP is more important at the end of the day.

A single raise in Suzaku really shouldn't be leaving you dry regardless of job. I'd have to ask what else is going on in these fights to suck your MP, cause it's not just malefic. Tons of unnecessary damage requiring more hardcasted heals/aspected benefics/aspected helioses maybe? Yea, that'd add up, as can compensating for other healers. And I know that happens in PF groups doing Suzaku; extremes are sorta designed to be able to be power healed through to an extent moreso than Savage.

Believe me, I'm no fan of refresh as the game stands, but I don't see SCH/AST being borderline unplayable without it as things stand with this much ilvl and this much available piety. I'd love for things to shift around in regards to refresh and alternatives. Mana shift was a step in the right direction but it's been a small step with some issues too.

And yes, a scholar SHOULD run out of MP fast weaving M2 without a mana battery. It's a freaking holy replacement. That's part of why their damage has gotten as high as it is; because refresh helps enable that, which is honestly ridiculous.

[Risvertasashi]

Aside from MP Economy being one of the only strengths WHM has left to it (please, we don't need any more nails in this coffin than we currently have)

It's not, though. Skilled ASTs haven't been having mana issues since the 4.3 buff.

[Erakir]

It's not, though. Skilled ASTs haven't been having mana issues since the 4.3 buff.

Sure. Skilled ones. Especially with Refresh.

WHM MP economy is still superior I'd say. Don't need to really optimize thin air timings at all and can keep trucking along. Without refresh.

That nothing exists that taxes anyone's MP enough for this to be relevant is another thing. It's a strength, albeit overstated I feel and not exactly a useful strength at the moment in savage. Cause as you say - skilled ASTs aren't having any real problems, and neither are SCHs. Believe me I'm aware it's not exactly helping WHMs get groups.

If we had something to dump excess WHM MP into, say, damage? That'd be nifty. But alas. That'd make sense.

I'm in agreement with this sentiment too. Having no Refresh would necessitate a change in playstyle, but shouldn't lead to any wipes in a group with mechanics being dealt with properly unless your groups ilvl is so low that healers need to be spamming those heals to keep up with mechanics.

This is pretty much how things have gone with our group. We work around it, and it works. That monk actually melds piety on his AST (the horror!) in his group to help out.

[Ghishlain]

This is pretty much how things have gone with our group. We work around it, and it works. That monk actually melds piety on his AST (the horror!) in his group to help out.

The horror! =p

[Ghishlain]

...but I don't see SCH/AST being borderline unplayable without it as things stand with this much ilvl and this much available piety.

I'm in agreement with this sentiment too. Having no Refresh would necessitate a change in playstyle, but shouldn't lead to any wipes in a group with mechanics being dealt with properly unless your groups ilvl is so low that healers need to be spamming those heals to keep up with mechanics.