Eureka is still ruined because of Pagos

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I do exactly what i said. I have 3 relics. I know what I do and I don't but the endless hate pushed on this forum. My 3rd toon will be 29 with the next nm and has almost 5 frosted already. She has 84 pagos crystals at the moment. After Salt and Light is done with I'll be back in pagos in short order.

Edit: And I might add I do spend time with one of my current 35 toons capping tomes there as well. She'll have a second relic (probably WHM given I've done RDM first) by the time the next installment arrives. It's silly easy to cap there.

You dodged the question. You either waited around for other people to spawn NMs or you did kill trash mobs yourself. The challenge log only goes so far, especially as they only recently buffed it. Likewise, NM light rewards were abysmally low until the latest patch. If you mean to imply you started your relic farming more recently, well, that only further emphasised the point Pagos is poorly designed. It took several nerfs before people started to bother with it again. Regardless, there is simply no other way to process. It may not be as boring to you, thus you lost track of how many mobs you actually killed. But you either killed them by the several thousands or you benefited off other people doing it to spawn NMs.

[LaylaTsarra]

You dodged the question. You either waited around for other people to spawn NMs or you did kill trash mobs yourself. The challenge log only goes so far, especially as they only recently buffed it. Likewise, NM light rewards were abysmally low until the latest patch. If you mean to imply you started your relic farming more recently, well, that only further emphasised the point Pagos is poorly designed. It took several nerfs before people started to bother with it again. Regardless, there is simply no other way to process. It may not be as boring to you, thus you lost track of how many mobs you actually killed. But you either killed them by the several thousands or you benefited off other people doing it to spawn NMs.

Oh please... I just hit 31, have 7 frosted crystals, 146 pagos crystals and I've been helping to spawn nm's in this instance for the last 3 hours. Your continued vendetta again pagos is noted but I have the weapons, I know what I did and didn't do, and it's gets really old listening to the it doesn't work crowd. I hope to have the 32 aether real soon and life will be a lot easier getting around.

And I might add Eureka Anemos was also about spawning NM's and killing mobs to do just that. This offers more variety and yes I do enjoy Pagos and the open world they've created there for relic. It sure beats running ARF 2 zillion times for tomes and so on.

[Deceptus]

The challenge log only goes so far, especially as they only recently buffed it. Likewise, NM light rewards were abysmally low until the latest patch.

This. I've done the challenge log mostly with maybe 3 or 4 NM and I'm just now 34 and will be 35 next week. Why? Because Pagos just isn't enjoyable to me. IMHO the developers went out of their way to make casual content as hard, as grindy, and as time consuming as they could.

Pagos is anti player.

And I might add Eureka Anemos was also about spawning NM's and killing mobs to do just that. .

And the way Anemos was set up you could go to any NM and get there relatively easily. You can't do that with pagos the way everything is gated off.

[Tsumdere]

Pagos defenders always end up on "I like it so therefore it is good" and saying it was way better than spamming ARF. Which always makes me laugh because I never touched ARF when doing my relics, not even back in HW.
If you didnt want to do ARF (like me!) you didnt have to and could still do relic! Choice is wild, isnt it.

Pagos does not give you choice. It is not diverse.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Oh please... I just hit 31, have 7 frosted crystals, 146 pagos crystals and I've been helping to spawn nm's in this instance for the last 3 hours. Your continued vendetta again pagos is noted but I have the weapons, I know what I did and didn't do, and it's gets really old listening to the it doesn't work crowd. I hope to have the 32 aether real soon and life will be a lot easier getting around.

And I might add Eureka Anemos was also about spawning NM's and killing mobs to do just that. This offers more variety and yes I do enjoy Pagos and the open world they've created there for relic. It sure beats running ARF 2 zillion times for tomes and so on.

You've deflected again.

If you helped spawn NMs, you were killing hundreds of brain dead mobs. There is no way around this as it's long been established it takes several hundred to spawn anything. As for having weapons. So? You enjoyed Pagos. A good lot of people don't. But you're coming in, claiming it doesn't require an endless grind of trash mobs when every criteria listed says otherwise. Well, it comes across more than a little disingenuous. How is it you managed to find a way around mob grinding but no one else has?

And in Anemos, the mobs died quickly while NMs showed up by the dozens. In Pagos, you're lucky to see more than three or four in an entire instance. More variety? That's a joke. If you elected to spam ARF endless, then your boredom is your own doing. I finished my Anima weapon through Beast Tribes, raids and even Savage. There's no variety in killing trash mobs with zero mechanics. And before you bring up the challenge log. That still involves killing trash mobs with zero mechanics.

[LaylaTsarra]

And the way Anemos was set up you could go to any NM and get there relatively easily. You can't do that with pagos the way everything is gated off.

Yes it was and it sure made getting mutliple relics and gear sets very easy to do. I might add that didn't stop this forum however from running Eureka Anemos into the ground with how bad it was and that it wouldn't last but a few weeks until people got their first relic and would leave. Guess what that didn't happen now did it.

And yes Pagos is much harder realive to getting relics but it's not really that hard. Multiple relics are easier now after the nerfs but I will admit I am a bit sad that I won't be upgrading all the weapons I got in Anemos. Perhaps with further nerfs to light that will happen we'll have to wait and see. And yes the gating of the aethers is very challenging when it comes to getting to upper level NM's. Trying to determine which NM's are being worked on helps a lot when you can get there and actually help with a spawn. I save return mostly for getting back to the lower nm's when they spawn.

Pagos defenders always end up on "I like it so therefore it is good" and saying it was way better than spamming ARF. Which always makes me laugh because I never touched ARF when doing my relics, not even back in HW.
If you didnt want to do ARF (like me!) you didnt have to and could still do relic! Choice is wild, isnt it.

ARF just made it more efficient to tome farm and many did it endlessly. Personally I did it some but did other roulettes as well. It was a lot of work for one relic whereas with Eureka Anemos and Pagos multiple relics in my view are easier to get than spamming countless dungeons for the tome farming needed for the previous relic and frankly I'm so happy we don't have to do that again.

You've deflected again.
If you helped spawn NMs, you were killing hundreds of brain dead mobs.

Yes I found a secret to spawning NM's without killing mobs. If you're nice I'll let you know how it's done.

And relative to killing mobs I was making a distinction (perhaps not clearly) between NM Spawns and Light Farming of mobs like Anubys and Dragons and so on

[Rokke]

Pagos defenders always end up on "I like it so therefore it is good" and saying it was way better than spamming ARF. Which always makes me laugh because I never touched ARF when doing my relics, not even back in HW.
If you didnt want to do ARF (like me!) you didnt have to and could still do relic! Choice is wild, isnt it.

Pagos does not give you choice. It is not diverse.

I pointed out the fact that you didn't need to spam ARF in another Pagos thread and someone still tried to defend pagos as "more diverse" because they could choose to help farm or sit back and talk to people, which they couldn't do in other forms of relic grinding lol

Personally I think beating on anubys/gryphons for hours on end and running ARF "2 zillion times" about equal levels of brain-dead boring and don't get why some folks would loudly defend one over the other.

[Tsumdere]

ARF just made it more efficient to tome farm and many did it endlessly. Personally I did it some but did other roulettes as well. It was a lot of work for one relic whereas with Eureka Anemos and Pagos multiple relics in my view are easier to get than spamming countless dungeons for the tome farming needed for the previous relic and frankly I'm so happy we don't have to do that again.
--
Yes I found a secret to spawning NM's without killing mobs. If you're nice I'll let you know how it's done.

Tell me, what is fundamentally different than grinding monsters in one spot for several hours that is different than running the same dungeon over and over for several hours? There is no difference. What you are doing in Pagos, is a dumbed down version of exactly what you were doing in ARF.
Which by default, makes Eureka worse than any other relic because at least in the other relics you could choose NOT to do something where in Pagos you are forced to do what boils down to ARF Trash Mobs in the Snow™.

Also, I must point out that I have all of my Anemos weapons, several full sets, and a Pagos weapon. It wasn't hard, but it was legitimately the most awful time I have had playing a video game ever. If I wanted to play a F2P Chinese grind fest, I would reinstall a better F2P Chinese grind fest like Wonderland Online.

I pointed out the fact that you didn't need to spam ARF in another Pagos thread and someone still tried to defend pagos as "more diverse" because they could choose to help farm or sit back and talk to people, which they couldn't do in other forms of relic grinding lol

Personally I think beating on anubys/gryphons for hours on end and running ARF "2 zillion times" about equal levels of brain-dead boring and don't get why some folks would loudly defend one over the other.

ARF spam was the worst, which is why I never did it. I just hate that dungeon period. If I wanted a mass amount of Poetics right that very moment, I would do Great Gubal Hard farms (which was my second favorite dungeon at the time so it never bothered me). For the most part though, I just played the game and relics fell into my lap by process. I had 3 relics by the end of HW, just from extra Poetics I got from doing other things.

[WhyAmIHere]

I'm defending it because most people I ran into on the forum only use fallacy to attack it.
"The majority hates it" No, it doesn't, unless you can show me significant numbers.
"I'm forced to do a content I dislike" No, you're not, you want to do it because you want the relic. Like you'd do with Savage, PvP or Deep Dungeon if you wanted the corresponding weapon. Blame yourself.
"Eureka is supposed to be for everyone" No, it's not, Yoshida said so at the very beginning.
"I've joined one instance on patch day and it was empty, so Pagos is completely dead" : No, it's not, there are still several full instances, and it's expected that people will focus on new content for patch day.
"I don't like it so it must be deleted so that we have another dungeon" : And what about people who like it and are bored of having the same dungeons since 5 years ?
etc, etc...


Apart from that, I really don't care if you like it or not, you just need to use proper arguments to do it.

You're expecting numbers that aren't released publicly. A rough assertion can be gleamed from here, reddit, fan communities, et al. A majority of opinions collated from the myriad sources favors heavily a disliking of Eureka, and specifically Pagos now.
Moot argument. Placing the blame on players for playing the game? Really now? Nice.
So he designed content knowing it's not gonna have a mass appeal, and the challenge from it is significantly less than raiding? Brilliant game design choices, really shows how "in the know" the dev team is.
Granted. Outliers like "i got an empty instance content dead" are reductive and not indicative of the large majority of instances. Still shouldn't be happening at all if SE knew how to cull instances and properly allocate resources.
People are entitled to like pagos. Realize however, a vast majority of ANY opinion are not going to be spoken, mostly kept to the individuals. Only a vocal minority ever speaks up, in anything in life really.

You should follow your own advice on that last part my dude.

[Rokke]

ARF spam was the worst, which is why I never did it. I just hate that dungeon period. If I wanted a mass amount of Poetics right that very moment, I would do Great Gubal Hard farms (which was my second favorite dungeon at the time so it never bothered me). For the most part though, I just played the game and relics fell into my lap by process. I had 3 relics by the end of HW, just from extra Poetics I got from doing other things.

I sprinkled ARF and Gubal into my dailies, so I never really got sick of either. The bulk of my poetics came from glamour farming 24 man raids and the bulk of my light came from dailies + pvp. I did both my BRD/WHM relics when each step was relevant and my AST was usually one or two steps behind. imo, tomes rain from the sky so its never been hard for me to round them up lol