Few close friends quit FFXIV, one wants to explain why, hopes SE improves the game

[Acidblood]

Pretty much feel the same as the OP, and while I'm still enjoying FFXIV (while mostly playing other games) I just don't feel anywhere near as invested in SB as I was in HW, and without some seriously good changes announced for 5.0 I doubt I will bother.

To elaborate further, I feel like the three major difference between HW and SB are:
1. No real relic quest in SB. This is bigger than I first thought, but Eureka is not a substitute for the relic quest; a real relic quest is more spread out, more varied, and lets you do it in your own time... Eureka feels more like instanced raid progression, hitting your head against a wall over and over until you finally 'break though' and are just glad it's over.

2. Crafting seems, boring... maybe it was just that it wasn't until HW that I really 'discovered' crafting, but SB crafting just seems like a copy-paste of HW, only easier (weeklies) and more brain dead (class quests, same way of getting materials as HW). It also somehow feels less rewarding... maybe due to being easier... maybe due to a lack of things worth crafting (again, no relic) ... not sure.

3. From the cross-role system, to the design of eureka, to mediocre job design, to a continued lack of certain types of content, it just seems like the gameplay / systems designers are asleep at the wheel (assuming FFXIV still has gameplay / systems designers?), or too busy working on things that don't matter (like endless PvP reworks :/ ) ... as I said, things need to change come 5.0 because HWv3 is not going to fly, especially with a new wave of MMOs hitting in the next year or two (Pantheon, WoW Classic, Ashes of Creation, etc.).

[Miziliti]

Anytime SE tries to innovate new things we get stuck with stuff like Lords of Vermillion, Diadem and Euruka. We all know how the community feels about them. Until they figure out how to design new content that the community likes, were going to be doing the same content with a new coat of paint every time.

Ah yes, funny you brought up these things and call them innovation. Yes, they are different from what the core game is, but isn't it obvious that these innovations are not good. Are they popular? No. Do people bother with them? Not that many. If that is literally the sole reason FFXIV is afraid of change things around, instead, they just continue to copy paste the same old formula patch by patch until (7.0?) to be safe; then that means these innovation lacks enough thoughts, plannings, and efforts to begin with. Bad innovation chase your customers away and so do zero innovation. I'm not going to be protective and let SE put FFXIV in a greenhouse because so far what they've come up all failed. If they don't keep trying, the customers will have to move on.

[ko_]

Ah yes, funny you brought up these things and call them innovation. Yes, they are different from what the core game is, but isn't it obvious that these innovations are not good. Are they popular? No. Do people bother with them? Not that many. If that is literally the sole reason FFXIV is afraid of change things around, instead, they just continue to copy paste the same old formula patch by patch until (7.0?) to be safe; then that means these innovation lacks enough thoughts, plannings, and efforts to begin with. Bad innovation chase your customers away and so do zero innovation. I'm not going to be protective and let SE put FFXIV in a greenhouse because so far what they've come up all failed. If they don't keep trying, the customers will have to move on.

He's not wrong tho. They won't change anything until they find something that actually works, none of that is changing the core mind you. But you can't expect them to keep throwing things into the wall and their suits -bosses and investors- will be happy about it. At some point if not already you can bet those bosses are like " Do what works and bring us those checks" You can only fail so many times before you're told to stop completely.

[Gemina]

Whm the job I love the most still has a identity crisis, Crafting has become press 2 buttons and craft.

How so? What's this identity crisis you speak of? You still bitter about role skills giving the other two healers abilities previously exclusive to WHM? If that is the case, AST and DRK would like to have a conversation with you. AST is a WHM with cards, and DRK is only a DRK in name and aesthetics. These two jobs truly do not have an identity to call their own. And even though I don't play MCH, I'd wager this 3rd HW job also struggles - as little birds have told me in order to influence my bet. Trust me, WHM does not have an identity problem. If it did, players would not be able to believe and say that AST is a WHM with cards. You should know that I am not stating this; I am echoing it.

Oh and can you please send me your 2-step crafting rotation for starred recipes. This would save me so much time!

[Tint]

Trust me, WHM does not have an identity problem. If it did, players would not be able to believe and say that AST is a WHM with cards. You should know that I am not stating this; I am echoing it.

Please tell me what is WHMs identity? What differinates it from AST?

I mean I know his identity is "strong heals", but his heals aren't actually stronger than ASTs. AST is the WHM copy with additional utility, shorter cast times, better instant heal options and he has basically no drawback for this. In other words despite the fact that AST is a copy of WHM, WHM is only a budget AST, he has no niche of his own and nothing special - except Cure 3 lol.

[Penthea]

Please tell me what is WHMs identity? What differinates it from AST?

I mean I know his identity is "strong heals", but his heals aren't actually stronger than ASTs. AST is the WHM copy with additional utility, shorter cast times, better instant heal options and he has basically no drawback for this. In other words despite the fact that AST is a copy of WHM, WHM is only a budget AST, he has no niche of his own and nothing special - except Cure 3 lol.

Whm's mana efficiency far outpaces ast and sch. That's certainly a niche beyond having cure 3. Whms are frequently used for progress because of this. There is more room for error if a whm is in the group.

The reason why whm is treated like budget ast isn't because of the healing kit. It's because whm can do literally -nothing- to buff raid dps, whereas both ast and sch can. As soon as a group knows the fight and thus know how to take less damage then often this is when the whm will switch to ast because at this point whm's niche loses value.

[Gemina]

Please tell me what is WHMs identity? What differinates it from AST?

I mean I know his identity is "strong heals", but his heals aren't actually stronger than ASTs. AST is the WHM copy with additional utility, shorter cast times, better instant heal options and he has basically no drawback for this. In other words despite the fact that AST is a copy of WHM, WHM is only a budget AST, he has no niche of his own and nothing special - except Cure 3 lol.

WHM was here first. Long before AST came around. AST has simply borrowed abilities from both WHM and SCH, and does not have enough of its own niche to be given an individual identity. I play all three healers, and AST is great and a lot of fun to play. However, this does not establish an identity for the job. This is done through unique gameplay. SCH accomplishes this. Nothing about it feels like a WHM. Truly a well designed job that has its own identity despite sharing their starting class.

WHM not bringing enough raid utility and becoming a discount AST is not an identity issue. It's a gameplay and design issue. It really doesn't have anything to do with who has stronger heals, faster cast times, better ogcds, etc.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Whm's mana efficiency far outpaces ast and sch. That's certainly a niche beyond having cure 3. Whms are frequently used for progress because of this. There is more room for error if a whm is in the group.

The reason why whm is treated like budget ast isn't because of the healing kit. It's because whm can do literally -nothing- to buff raid dps, whereas both ast and sch can. As soon as a group knows the fight and thus know how to take less damage then often this is when the whm will switch to ast because at this point whm's niche loses value.

Actually, Astro has pulled ahead even in the prog scene. O12S, for example, requires a lot of quick movement which renders Cure III useless. Astro's healing is overall superior due to Sect bonuses; Essential Dignity outpaces Tetra both in CD length and overall heal potency as does Earthly over Assize. The only thing WHM has at this point is better MP management. In terms of everything else, Astro has eclipsed it.

[Penthea]

Actually, Astro has pulled ahead even in the prog scene. O12S, for example, requires a lot of quick movement which renders Cure III useless. Astro's healing is overall superior due to Sect bonuses; Essential Dignity outpaces Tetra both in CD length and overall heal potency as does Earthly over Assize. The only thing WHM has at this point is better MP management. In terms of everything else, Astro has eclipsed it.

Fair enough but even when ast was doing less hps than whm it was favoured anyway because of the raid dps buffs it brings.

[KisaiTenshi]

2. Crafting seems, boring... maybe it was just that it wasn't until HW that I really 'discovered' crafting, but SB crafting just seems like a copy-paste of HW, only easier (weeklies) and more brain dead (class quests, same way of getting materials as HW). It also somehow feels less rewarding... maybe due to being easier... maybe due to a lack of things worth crafting (again, no relic) ... not sure.

I'll just say the easiest way to change crafting would be to simply have crafters able to produce the -exact- same gear you get from drops/tomes with HQ's having advanced melding available, having dyed/pentamelded where the tomes base does not. Where as the existing path is typically the gear you get from raiding/tomes can not be dyed without upgrading it with something from the other raid. Once the tomes devalue, then you can simply buy the tomes upgrade without doing the raid. If a gear is no longer valuable for it's melding value, then players can still craft dyable versions of it for glamour.

Thus there are two ways of getting that gear, instead of one, and you can save some time if you have all your crafter jobs leveled. Though the materials would likely be harder to obtain if everyone chooses that route.