A little scared of the future

[Dirwen]

What you just posted has nothing to do with the conversation. Tolerating people that don't know the basics of their job is the very source of the problem of players that don't know the basics of their job advancing in the game.

They need to be kicked, for their own good.

Nothing wrong with that but there are others prefer not to do so and create unnecessary drama. What I posted does have to do with the conversation as you are playing with strangers not your friends or acquaintances. Trying to use logic on people is already a recipe for disaster as they are emotional beings.

[van_arn]

Nothing wrong with that but there are others prefer not to do so and create unnecessary drama. What I posted does have to do with the conversation as you are playing with strangers not your friends or acquaintances. Trying to use logic on people is already a recipe for disaster as they are emotional beings.

If they're strangers, there's even less reason to tolerate them not being able to play their class.

[Tint]

It takes me maybe a week to level a class to 70, but I need 1 - 3 months until I can play it on a decent level.

You level so fast and because the gameplay is not complete for many classes before you reach 70, and the whole mass pull and aoe it down is more or less a new thing at level cap wich was not that present during the level process, you will not be able to learn how to play before hitting level cap.

Some people, like myself, maybe are just a bit slow with learning. Kick these people from ex trials and savage raid all you want, but how should these people ever become better when you kick them from dungeons and other casual content? Of course some people will never improve, but many others will and they need the paractical training in level 70 dungeons.

[van_arn]

It takes me maybe a week to level a class to 70, but I need 1 - 3 months until I can play it on a decent level.

You level so fast and because the gameplay is not complete for many classes before you reach 70, and the whole mass pull and aoe it down is more or less a new thing at level cap wich was not that present during the level process, you will not be able to learn how to play before hitting level cap.

Some people, like myself, maybe are just a bit slow with learning. Kick these people from ex trials and savage raid all you want, but how should these people ever become better when you kick them from dungeons and other casual content? Of course some people will never improve, but many others will and they need the paractical training in level 70 dungeons.

Sorry, if you outlevel your capability you need to hit a wall until you catch up even if you're boosted. You, in particular, have even less of an excuse since you've had enough time to become familiar with the basics required of each role. Basics, such as tanks tank, healers heal, and DPS does damage. If you can't swing that knowledge by the time you hit 70, and can't provide yourself guidance to meet those ideas by the time you're 70, then there's no reason for a player in this position to participate in combat at all.

It's Square's failure they've boosted advancement too much, so if you have complaints on leveling before you're qualified to advance take it up with them.

If it sounds like I have no sympathy for players still struggling with level 30 combos a year past the launch of Stormblood, that's because I have zero sympathy for people don't bother to learn their class by the time they hit 4.0. and yes, that's a failure of square to teach, but ultimately it's the failure of the player to try.

The only reason people are able to do this is because some players tolerate a level 70 playing like a level 30 because it's "mean" to require more, when in fact it's downright cruel to new players to permit them to play so poorly for so long.

Show some love and kick them so they know they need to read their tooltips. If they refuse to do so and quit, it's still a net positive for the community.

[Melichoir]

I have been at final fantasy ever since 3.1 was just out and generally tend to take time on content, prefering more to replay older stuff than to charge right into new stuff. Sure because i have many characters and love HW. Anyhow! In SB, and sure in 4.4 dungeon difficulty seems to have shot up lots and i was in continuous panic mode to say in the burn final boss. If this trend continues, i feel people more and more may be discouraged from the game. (Im not talking about ones who: do raids, 24man content, savage or extreme) or become locked in only doing older content. The burn isnt the only one that seems harder than what one would expect of casual stuff but its a big spike.

I actually think it will draw more people into the game, not drive away people. If content is to easy, that tends to kill games because people burn through it fast, ending up half satisfied and with the impression the game is easy mode and not worth the time. As an extreme example of this : Dark Souls is notorious for higher difficulty yet it is a game that is widely played and enjoyed for that very aspect. I think a lot of players, new and old, crave a challenge, but Developers in the last 4-5 years have been dumbing down games and content in an effort to reach a "wider audience", not realizing that a good challenge (and story) probably pull more people into a franchise than easy mode content.

[Bright-Flower]

It takes me maybe a week to level a class to 70, but I need 1 - 3 months until I can play it on a decent level.

You level so fast and because the gameplay is not complete for many classes before you reach 70, and the whole mass pull and aoe it down is more or less a new thing at level cap wich was not that present during the level process, you will not be able to learn how to play before hitting level cap.

Some people, like myself, maybe are just a bit slow with learning. Kick these people from ex trials and savage raid all you want, but how should these people ever become better when you kick them from dungeons and other casual content? Of course some people will never improve, but many others will and they need the paractical training in level 70 dungeons.

If you still need to learn your job, there's nothing wrong with going into dungeons and normal mode trials/raids to get experience with them. Especially if you're making an honest effort to improve.

EX trials and Savage Raids (and Ultimate fights) are the hardest content in the game. These are not places you should go to learn your job. These are places you go AFTER you've learned your job. If it takes you a few months to learn your job that's fine. For example, I've leveled white mage to level 70 but I don't know the job well enough to step into a ex trial as a whm. I can handle a dungeon just fine but I wouldn't do high end content without getting better at the job and learning more of its ends and outs.

Now I'm not saying you should somehow know a savage or ex fight before trying it. It's perfectly fine to enter a learning party and make some mistakes while making an honest effort to learn the fight. But you should know your job already so that you can focus on learning the FIGHT. If you need more practice to learn the job, again that's fine, but don't do it in savage/ex content. Do it in dungeons, at a target dummy, or normal mode fights.

[ShinShimon]

SE really needs to make class-specific tutorials. Something like a hand-held run through a dungeon on a "training exercise" with phases that teach you the basics of how to play your class in group content. A trash mob phase that teaches you how to aggro/AoE spam/juggle healing and DPS, a personal DPS check phase that tells you how to do your basic rotation and requires you to pull it off in order to clear the check, and a final phase that deals with job-specific mechanics and optimization (as DRK, using TBN properly on yourself and on others; as DRG, making sure you fill up your eyes fast enough, making sure you get off at least 2 Nastronds and ideally 3, and making sure you use Dragon Sight on cooldown and don't break the tether).

And in order to make sure people actually do it, give players a big tomestone reward for completing it the first time.

[van_arn]

If you still need to learn your job, there's nothing wrong with going into dungeons and normal mode trials/raids to get experience with them. Especially if you're making an honest effort to improve.

EX trials and Savage Raids (and Ultimate fights) are the hardest content in the game. These are not places you should go to learn your job. These are places you go AFTER you've learned your job. If it takes you a few months to learn your job that's fine. For example, I've leveled white mage to level 70 but I don't know the job well enough to step into a ex trial as a whm. I can handle a dungeon just fine but I wouldn't do high end content without getting better at the job and learning more of its ends and outs.

Now I'm not saying you should somehow know a savage or ex fight before trying it. It's perfectly fine to enter a learning party and make some mistakes while making an honest effort to learn the fight. But you should know your job already so that you can focus on learning the FIGHT. If you need more practice to learn the job, again that's fine, but don't do it in savage/ex content. Do it in dungeons, at a target dummy, or normal mode fights.

This goes all the way down. If you can't handle your class at Savage tier, don't do Savage tier with it. If you can't handle a class at expert tier, don't do expert with it. If you can't handle 4.0 content with your class, don't do 4.0 content with that class.

And if you can't handle ARR content, just uninstall.

[MoroMurasaki]

This goes all the way down. If you can't handle your class at Savage tier, don't do Savage tier with it. If you can't handle a class at expert tier, don't do expert with it. If you can't handle 4.0 content with your class, don't do 4.0 content with that class.

And if you can't handle ARR content, just uninstall.

I get that you're being hyperbolic and I've liked several of your posts in this thread but I just wanted to chime in on this before people take off with it.

Dungeons below level cap are there to learn your job. Even at cap I would say dungeon bosses are probably one of the most consistent ways many players practice their single target rotation.

Just because you can't perform well at something doesn't mean you shouldn't be in that content. My first clear of o9s this tier was really bad - like I'm taking deep in grey territory - but I don't think that means that I shouldn't be in there learning how to adapt to the fight and improve myself.

Some people learn best by being in over their head and I think some of the content from 4.4 suits that quite well from the Burn to the raids.

The only thing most players would require would be an openness to advice and a willingness and desire to learn and improve. If you've got those I say toss yourself into things one step at a time (so don't start a fresh 70 job in Savage) and it's okay to learn as you go.

No matter how bad you might be at a specific job you shouldn't uninstall or feel pressured to quit the game. The only time you should consider something like that in the context of this conversation in my opinion is when you're unwilling to learn.

[TalonAnchors]

A DPS check is specifically "Do a certain amount of damage in a short amount of time." If I go to Heavensward content, attack a Level 60 monster, AFK, and get killed because I stood there for five minutes and let it beat me to death, that isn't a DPS check. That's inactivity.

yea same with mist dragon