We Really Need To Talk About The State And Path Of FFXIV

[Shurrikhan]

Well.. the first thing I'd do is get rid of flying. Then I'll decide whether or not to make the maps big wastelands, actual filled maps, or smaller more detailed maps like ARR. I saw a thread some time ago asking for climbing. It sounded silly at first but I think FFXIV would be amazing if it had climbing instead of flying. Where you can climb all the rocks and things instead of just flying on it.

As often as I defend WoW's stance on flying (released only via grinds / achievements towards the end of the expansion, i.e. once the advantage is primarily aesthetic or convenient only for insignificant grinding), I don't actually see anything specifically advantageous to removing flight as travel is now. XIV simply does not take good advantage of its terrain. With or without flight, the game needs improvements to its physics of movement. GW2 provides okayish examples of the (mount) movement mechanics available to spice up the open world, but even their physics can leave it a bit more lackluster than travel easily could be. I had hoped to see far more of canyons and the like, useful for ambushes and encouraging stealth and use of the unbeaten path, from the Ala Mhigan peripheries, for instance. Think of those places that make for good boss fight areas in single-player open world combat. This game has none of that, and even if such a zone were to exist here, we'd lack the ability to climb or stealth or leap or whatnot as necessary to take advantage of it.

[Magic-Mal]

As often as I defend WoW's stance on flying (released only via grinds / achievements towards the end of the expansion, i.e. once the advantage is primarily aesthetic or convenient only for insignificant grinding), I don't actually see anything specifically advantageous to removing flight as travel is now. XIV simply does not take good advantage of its terrain. With or without flight, the game needs improvements to its physics of movement. GW2 provides okayish examples of the (mount) movement mechanics available to spice up the open world, but even their physics can leave it a bit more lackluster than travel easily could be. I had hoped to see far more of canyons and the like, useful for ambushes and encouraging stealth and use of the unbeaten path, from the Ala Mhigan peripheries, for instance. Think of those places that make for good boss fight areas in single-player open world combat. This game has none of that, and even if such a zone were to exist here, we'd lack the ability to climb or stealth or leap or whatnot as necessary to take advantage of it.

I would really like climbing alot more than flight. Especially considering the fact the devs keep making maps with all kinds of hills and cliffs everywhere you look. But they have a slew of other map and enemy issues to fix to make it truly worth it and I don't think that will change anytime soon. I'd love to see the world enemies be much less... computerized. Or robotic. Like the animals(open world mobs) just feel so much like simple programs and not complex creatures. Doesn't make the world feel alive.

Then there are again, fish and puffballs of moss that can still threaten the Warrior of Light.

[Shurrikhan]

I would really like climbing alot more than flight. Especially considering the fact the devs keep making maps with all kinds of hills and cliffs everywhere you look. But they have a slew of other map and enemy issues to fix to make it truly worth it and I don't think that will change anytime soon. I'd love to see the world enemies be much less... computerized. Or robotic. Like the animals(open world mobs) just feel so much like simple programs and not complex creatures. Doesn't make the world feel alive.

Then there are again, fish and puffballs of moss that can still threaten the Warrior of Light.

Oh, same. Absolutely. It's largely why I was so pissed that 1.x's Black Shroud was thrown out for being a labyrinth that had little usable area over its total dimensions rather than being made climbable, so that it had greater usable area than its dimensions. (Plus it just looked way cooler...) And then there's the unique mob behaviors 1.x's world had, scrapped instead of being improved upon...

But such systems are a ton of work... that I feel would repay itself tenfold.

[Aster_E]

Oh, same. Absolutely. It's largely why I was so pissed that 1.x's Gridania was thrown out for being a labyrinth that had little usable area over its total dimensions rather than being made climbable, so that it had greater usable area than its dimensions. (Plus it just looked way cooler...) And then there's the unique mob behaviors 1.x's world had, scrapped instead of being improved upon...

But such systems are a ton of work... that I feel would repay itself tenfold.

The more that I look at FFXIV, and the direction that it is headed, the more that I just see inherent laziness. These unique features sound great, but I'm sure there are a dozen excuses as to why the devs won't do it now, with "technical limitations" being the popular excuse. I mean, I'm sure it's "technical" if the developers simply do not have the know-how or willpower to implement these nice things without taking years, just to reinvent the wheel and frustrate so many people along the way. The technology is there, I'm more than certain.

And then, as you noted, Gridania as we have it is a lot of wasted space. Loads of narrow pathways connect the few notable spots in the entire capital city. Compare to 1.x Gridania or XI's Windurst. The spots of note look nice, but they are literally few and far between. I can understand the Archers' guild being out of the way a bit because no one wants to get hit with a stray arrow, but that at least has an aethernet right spanking there. Btn Aethernet is still a walk from the Btn Guild, going the opposite direction than everything else. Apkallu Falls has no aethernet, so we have to make a long trip there no matter what way we're coming from. The two nearest aethernets to the market are a little bit of a walk as well. The zone entrances from Central Shroud are a fair walk from anything of note too, for that matter. Just... it's so sprawling that it's a bit of a head scratcher. The narrow passes, more often than not, amount to "Hey, there's a rocky surface with some greenery on it. And here's more rocky surface with some greenery on it." Compare this to Limsa where at least, on the walkways, you can look outward and see the environment. You can see, in Limsa, how it functions as a major city rather than a few sprawling points of interest that are connected by practical tunnels. I liked Gridania alright when I started playing, but now I tend to avoid it even on alt characters.

[Magic-Mal]

The more that I look at FFXIV, and the direction that it is headed, the more that I just see inherent laziness. These unique features sound great, but I'm sure there are a dozen excuses as to why the devs won't do it now, with "technical limitations" being the popular excuse. I mean, I'm sure it's "technical" if the developers simply do not have the know-how or willpower to implement these nice things without taking years, just to reinvent the wheel and frustrate so many people along the way. The technology is there, I'm more than certain.

And then, as you noted, Gridania as we have it is a lot of wasted space. Loads of narrow pathways connect the few notable spots in the entire capital city. Compare to 1.x Gridania or XI's Windurst. The spots of note look nice, but they are literally few and far between. I can understand the Archers' guild being out of the way a bit because no one wants to get hit with a stray arrow, but that at least has an aethernet right spanking there. Btn Aethernet is still a walk from the Btn Guild, going the opposite direction than everything else. Apkallu Falls has no aethernet, so we have to make a long trip there no matter what way we're coming from. The two nearest aethernets to the market are a little bit of a walk as well. The zone entrances from Central Shroud are a fair walk from anything of note too, for that matter. Just... it's so sprawling that it's a bit of a head scratcher. The narrow passes, more often than not, amount to "Hey, there's a rocky surface with some greenery on it. And here's more rocky surface with some greenery on it." Compare this to Limsa where at least, on the walkways, you can look outward and see the environment. You can see, in Limsa, how it functions as a major city rather than a few sprawling points of interest that are connected by practical tunnels. I liked Gridania alright when I started playing, but now I tend to avoid it even on alt characters.

Absolutely agree here especially with the Limsa and Gridania pieces. Gridania does not feel like a sprawling city but more like a small village. Few NPCs, tight spaces and it's tiny compared to the other city states. There aren't really NPCs chatting about at all really. We have that whole area at that locked gate - name I cannot remember - that is supposed to be living quarters and houses. The actual city part of Gridania. But it remains locked lol. Some day, I hope. The only reason why I like it there is for the Lavender Beds(best housing!!), the music, and the lighting. I mean, it definitely captures that homey, fantasy feel when you're a newbie first starting the game. It's was awesome feeling...

But compared to other cities it had little going for it. Limsa and Ul'Dah are huge in comparison to Gridania. NPCs all over the place chatting up storms. Everyone always talks about the legendary Limsa NPCs and everyone is always huddled in Limsa and Ul'Dah. Ul'Dah gets these big story arcs and constant involvement with their characters. Where's Gridania at?

It just feels like the devs put work into capturing the "bustling, lively city" feel for Ul'Dah and Limsa. But maybe that's what Gridania wasn't supposed to be. I do very much enjoy the Shroud I must say though. It holds lots of memories.

[Deceptus]

I would really like climbing alot more than flight. Especially considering the fact the devs keep making maps with all kinds of hills and cliffs everywhere you look. But they have a slew of other map and enemy issues to fix to make it truly worth it and I don't think that will change anytime soon. I'd love to see the world enemies be much less... computerized. Or robotic. Like the animals(open world mobs) just feel so much like simple programs and not complex creatures. Doesn't make the world feel alive.

Then there are again, fish and puffballs of moss that can still threaten the Warrior of Light.

I don't. The engine sucks for climbing and object hit detection/recognition is terrible. See: Kugane tower where you have to stand on thin air and jump to thin air to make jumps.

[Magic-Mal]

I don't. The engine sucks for climbing and object hit detection/recognition is terrible. See: Kugane tower where you have to stand on thin air and jump to thin air to make jumps.

In my mind, the idea of climbing is cool.. in reality I know it would suck lol. Devs seem to always make any new feature or system way too complicated or have way too many mechanics for something that would normally be extra simple.

[Shurrikhan]

In my mind, the idea of climbing is cool.. in reality I know it would suck lol. Devs seem to always make any new feature or system way too complicated or have way too many mechanics for something that would normally be extra simple.

What, you don't like pseudo-loading screens every time your head dips beneath the water?

[Shurrikhan]

Absolutely agree here especially with the Limsa and Gridania pieces. Gridania does not feel like a sprawling city but more like a small village. Few NPCs, tight spaces and it's tiny compared to the other city states. There aren't really NPCs chatting about at all really. We have that whole area at that locked gate - name I cannot remember - that is supposed to be living quarters and houses. The actual city part of Gridania. But it remains locked lol. Some day, I hope. The only reason why I like it there is for the Lavender Beds(best housing!!), the music, and the lighting. I mean, it definitely captures that homey, fantasy feel when you're a newbie first starting the game. It's was awesome feeling...

But compared to other cities it had little going for it. Limsa and Ul'Dah are huge in comparison to Gridania. NPCs all over the place chatting up storms. Everyone always talks about the legendary Limsa NPCs and everyone is always huddled in Limsa and Ul'Dah. Ul'Dah gets these big story arcs and constant involvement with their characters. Where's Gridania at?

It just feels like the devs put work into capturing the "bustling, lively city" feel for Ul'Dah and Limsa. But maybe that's what Gridania wasn't supposed to be. I do very much enjoy the Shroud I must say though. It holds lots of memories.

Walking about 1.x Limsa was actually what convinced me to play through 1.x. It just felt like there was so much interest in detailing the world that I was sold almost instantly. An apprentice cook is having a subtle breakdown over the moral conundrum of wanting so badly to be able to cook a dish that can only be sourced by fish that can only be found after the appearance of a sea monster, to much the same effect of having just butchered a delicious unicorn. You're introduced to pirate politics, an entertaining inn keeper, yellowcoat recruits, elitist municipals... There was just so much, and without attention being drawn away from it all yet.

And yet even that could have been far more, especially in Ul'duh, where the wall, which clearly houses residences and shops, goes completely unused, or Gridania, which weirdly obscures its connection to its nearby residences.

[Magic-Mal]

What, you don't like pseudo-loading screens every time your head dips beneath the water?

No I don't like that.. but I do enjoy being completely unable to do anything or find anything underwater. And using my wind-up Gloria underwater is one of the reasons why I stay subbed!