We Really Need To Talk About The State And Path Of FFXIV

[Edax]

I get that it doesn't really matter all too much and that it's mostly psychological but it's just... it bothers me for some reason either way. It makes progression not feel as meaningful anymore. We're "getting stronger" but in a way we really aren't. Even that is almost an illusion.. At Lv1 we did 11 damage per hit and the squirrel had 20HP. At level 80 we will still be fighting the same squirrel doing 8,000 damage per hit and the squirrel has 76,000HP.

I don't really feel that much stronger when a bug in The Burn has higher HP and damage than Bahamut(I feel they are using up the strongest baddies way too early and fast). Like, I get it vertical progression and that's just how it is but I guess my problem is the rate of how much we get stronger. ARR -> HW was kinda tame. But HW -> SB was like "here's 30,000 added to your damage". It all just feels so pointless. Maybe it could be solved by horizontal progression...

Becoming more powerful relative to the new environments you face creates problems with engagement.


The point is to invalidate all of the rare and powerful gear of the previous expansion so that players must grind the new content.

[Magic-Mal]

This kind of feels like complaints about nothing?

Numbers get bigger as games age, it's just how things work. If it bothers you from an in-character perspective of perceived growth do you honestly imagine numbers popping up by enemies heads when you hit them? That doesn't make any sense.

Different people see different things. It's not that I dislike getting stronger, no that's not what I'm saying. I know every game has something to make you get stronger because that's just how games are. I'm more talking about the rate of how strong we're getting, the way progression is only up, and how the enemies themselves don't reflect their strength. This is personal opinion stuff so I'm not preaching it as the right or wrong way for everyone.

On the first point about rate, I'm saying I dislike how strong we've gotten so fast for pretty much no reason the except to give us huge numbers. The difference between i270 and i290 gear is absolutely massive and for what? No other reason but to have inflated numbers for the sake of inflated numbers. I guess players asked for it? Or the devs are trying to make characters feel stronger maybe? I'm afraid of such power creep because I came from a game called DC Universe Online years ago and when a certain DLC came out, all bosses became HP sponges and players started dishing out 1.5M total DPS suddenly. Later, attacks started doing 2M damage. However, at least for a time, the enemies power lorewise scaled right..

Second point is pretty clear. We are only going up up up. Just bigger numbers, bigger numbers, and fast. It's a problem that Skill Speed is a bad stat for almost everything. Fast numbers should be an option too along with big slower numbers for example. Or big numbers as a reward for good technique(HW MCH). Now we all throw big numbers with no effort.

Third point about enemy-scaling, I was referring to not feeling like a stronger person in the game world when 3 coblyns at once are still a threat to my health at Lv70 after I have defeated both Alexander and Bahamut an now Omega. And speaking of raids, I want to say that they power-scale very well actually. With Bahamut then to Alexander then to literal FF bosses and Omega which is like a god. That's great! But a fish shouldn't be lv61 in my opinion. They should just continue to be level 20. What's special about that fish and why is it so strong? They should be putting in more powerful enemies world-wise instead of sticking a firefly in Yanxia and saying it's Lv65 and it does nothing different from a Lv21 firefly in East Shroud yet it hits for thousands.

Basically to make it shorter.. we are Lv70 and approaching 80 yet we are still fighting random animals and flies as if were are still that Lv1, or Lv10, or Lv20 adventurer from ages ago. That does not make me feel powerful. Personally.

EDIT:ARR actually did the "getting stronger" thing super well too. I felt like I was growing as an adventurer. HW as well actually. As we went to fighting dragon hordes to show our strength to taking down Allagan monstrosities. Now in SB we have went back to struggling with the local fauna.

[Dualgunner]

In addition to the local fauna we're also fighting against an ancient war machine that is easily on par with if not stronger than Shinryu who was touted to be the same tier of Primal as Bahamut himself.

Bahamut who, in canon, we haven't fought at his full power, lest you think Bahamut Prime was him at his peak.

[Magic-Mal]

In addition to the local fauna we're also fighting against an ancient war machine that is easily on par with if not stronger than Shinryu who was touted to be the same tier of Primal as Bahamut himself.

Bahamut who, in canon, we haven't fought at his full power, lest you think Bahamut Prime was him at his peak.

Didn't you see where I said I thought the raids did power scaling very well?

[Dualgunner]

Didn't you see where I said I thought the raids did power scaling very well?

To be honest I didn't, it kind of got lost because a lot of things become text walls on the phone.

[Magic-Mal]

To be honest I didn't, it kind of got lost because a lot of things become text walls on the phone.

Welcome to my world. Now imagine typing it ;-;

[Dualgunner]

Welcome to my world. Now imagine typing it ;-;

I hate myself but I'm not at that level yet lol

[Bourne_Endeavor]

\ But a fish shouldn't be lv61 in my opinion. They should just continue to be level 20. What's special about that fish and why is it so strong? They should be putting in more powerful enemies world-wise instead of sticking a firefly in Yanxia and saying it's Lv65 and it does nothing different from a Lv21 firefly in East Shroud yet it hits for thousands.\

From in-game perspective, one can argue different regions produce different results. Pokemon typically follows this logic. The Pokemon in Victory Road are simply more accustom to stronger threats, thereby forcing themselves to become stronger to survive. Perhaps not the most elegant explanation, but it does suffice. Realistically though, it's merely a design efficiency choice. World mobs have very little value in FFXIV except to give a sense of lived in feel to each zone. Making a slew of new models for mobs which will go near universally ignored save for perhaps the very first time you arrive just means a ton of resources went into developing nothing. Unfortunately, that is the nature of game design as a whole. You inevitably have to make budget concessions lest you wind up with a financial hole like SWTOR.

The raids feel better because they're intended to be relevant far longer. Not to mention, it's less models overall. Alphascape is essentially six somewhat unique models; five if you consider Omega M and Omega F aren't aesthetically different beyond their genders. Compare this to 10+ mobs per zone and you're looking at upwards of nearly a hundred new models per expansion. And where a raid tier will last at least seven months, the open world monsters won't. Even if they started pushing for a more open world experience, this limitation remains. Which is why games like Black Desert have World Bosses instead of new trash mobs. I mean, consider that very "affectionate" nickname people have for world and dungeon monsters: "trash." That sort of spells out why even the devs don't put a great deal of effort on designing them. Bosses are generally what garner attention, not the mobs before them.

[Ameela]

In terms of relating story and lore to gameplay I don't think you should be looking at level.
Yes, a fish in the Fringes is higher level than Alexander, but you can also solo that fish in 30 seconds even if you're below its level, for Alexander you still need a full party to do him in 5-10 minutes, even at 70.
It was kind of the implication I got from having the Sahagin you fight at the end of Sastasha be a level 15 mob when you're in a party of 4, but once you go out into the world solo the only Sahagin you find are level 40 or above. You don't have your allies helping you, so you need to be stronger to tackle those enemies on your own.

[Magic-Mal]

The raids feel better because they're intended to be relevant far longer. Not to mention, it's less models overall. Alphascape is essentially six somewhat unique models; five if you consider Omega M and Omega F aren't aesthetically different beyond their genders. Compare this to 10+ mobs per zone and you're looking at upwards of nearly a hundred new models per expansion. And where a raid tier will last at least seven months, the open world monsters won't. Even if they started pushing for a more open world experience, this limitation remains. Which is why games like Black Desert have World Bosses instead of new trash mobs. I mean, consider that very "affectionate" nickname people have for world and dungeon monsters: "trash." That sort of spells out why even the devs don't put a great deal of effort on designing them. Bosses are generally what garner attention, not the mobs before them.

Well I'm not really saying make the entire world maps be made up of unique models. I'm aware that that's way too much to ask for. I'm totally fine with reusing existing enemy models for extra Lv70 enemies each map. I was thinking about having the mobs in the worlds to have more varying levels. Levels that better suit each enemy there in comparison to our strength. Like this for example..

Fringes:
Mossling - Lv3(Lol!)
Bigmouth Angler - Lv32
Pugil - Lv41
Ochu - Lv48
Bhoot - Lv49
Gazelle - Lv50
Mountain Bear - Lv52
Hawk(Hornet enemy) - Lv58-60
Spiders - Lv60
Leshy - Lv60-61
Crocodiles - Lv62
Gagana - Lv60-67
Antlion - Lv63-70
Ananta - Lv67-70
Tainted Torrent Sprite - Lv70(New addition)
Tainted Wildfire Sprite - Lv70(New addition)
Tainted Boulder Sprite - Lv70(New addition)
Big Plant guys with clubs - Lv70
Ananta Marid - Lv70
Armored/Magicked Marid - Powerful Lv70?(New addition)
Monk Spirits - Powerful Lv70?(New addition)
Coeurl Spirits - Powerful Lv70?(New addition)

Basically where the basic small animals like mosslings, pugils, and anglers are the same strength as their ARR counterparts while intelligent beastmen like Ananta and their huge elephants, are more threatening to us. It would be interesting to have a few dungeon mobs there even, like the spirit monks from the Temple of the Fist. Could make it where Magicked Marids have a higher droprate for HQ Marid hides. Don't just get tiny animals and slap em with Lv60+. It's kinda weird. It's like we're getting stronger but the fish are training and defeating Primals too.

I'd love this and I think it would make the worlds better and make WoLs feel like they're growing. Or it's just wishful thinking on my part....

EDIT!:
I'm talking about this messed up stuff!

Lv31 Fish


Lv63 Fish