Pushed to quit after 1,860 days subbed

[R-Pete-G]

Hi, Ko. I went on a trip with work, and I've just caught up. It seems to be you debating with other people primarily about me, so I'm gonna have a totally chilled and very up-front reply for you. Hopefully it can reduce the need to inflate this thread with lots of back and forth.

I'll quote your most recent post for some context.

I disagree.. he missed EVERYTHING even ingame stuff, so how was SE posed to fix his current issue? THATS what I'm talking about tho. How did he miss it ALL. He missed the text at log in, he missed millions of people talking about it ingame, he missed everything so he would've missed whatever you are mentioning too. Cause he missed it all. 1000 days and NEVER heard of the timers? Come on man.... SE can't fix user error. They just can't.

So, as other people have pointed out, one of the points of my thread was to say that essentially the auto demolition feature could be harder to miss. I know in your opinion it seems that it isn't, and that's cool. But it'd also be cool if you could - just for a minute - suspend your disbelief that other people might miss it. I mean, "millions of people" may have been talking about it, but I don't interact with all of them. I don't spend a lot of time idling in cities reading chat, I never really read the forums before now, stuff like that. Even if there's a 1,000,000,000 to 1 chance that someone could miss it, there's still going to be 1. Maybe that's me, it's possible, so we shouldn't pretend it isn't.

Next up, now that we know it's possible, we consider how much blame you can associate to that. The position you're coming from is that, as a player, you should be reading more external resources (and by external, I mean not in the game client), or speaking to all the NPCs to glean all the information (and we already established that the demolition info is behind a third-level dialogue option on an NPC with a misleading title). You know what? That's also cool. If that's your opinion on what makes me a bad player, then I can't stop you thinking that. If you want to think that I'm the most ignorant player you've ever met, I really don't mind. Can't stop you.

But the crux of this conversation is about the consequence of that. Using your example of someone going into a raid, that person totally should be reading up and making an effort. If they don't, however, what happens? They get kicked. They get criticised. They probably won't make it into any raiding FCs or Statics. But they still - and this is the really important part - don't have any risk of their Job levels being deleted. No matter how badly they play, no matter how much of a terrible Black Mage they might be, they still get to keep being a level 70 Black Mage because they worked for that.

Now, housing is a weird exception because there's an upside to demolishing a house, that there wouldn't be to taking someone's job levels away. Houses are finite - my house gets demolished, someone else gets a chance. I get why that exists. But the thing is, that system is not - and never was - designed to be a punishment for people who hadn't read enough Lodestone or Launcher articles. It's not a knowledge-check to see if you deserve to keep your Private Estate by being well-read. It's meant to take something away from someone that they've lost interest in, but the game isn't clever enough to gauge someone's interest. It has to use a metric to estimate that, and that metric is a specific kind of in-game activity involving that house.

What we're saying - at least, I know for sure I'm saying, and others seem to get it - is that if Squenix is going to use a specific metric for gauging your activity in something, they should really communicate that better. Ideally, when you start using the feature. Would that remove all possibility of user error? Nope. Someone could still forget, but you can't forget something you don't know. Someone could actually lose interest, but they'd do so knowing the consequences. And considering this is the only instance in the entire of FFXIV that I can think of where actual content gets permanently deleted without your interaction, surely you can agree that it's a bit odd that one of the severest consequences in the game has less messaging and in-game Active Help text than most other features.

[ko_]

But the crux of this conversation is about the consequence of that. Using your example of someone going into a raid, that person totally should be reading up and making an effort. If they don't, however, what happens? They get kicked. They get criticised. They probably won't make it into any raiding FCs or Statics. But they still - and this is the really important part - don't have any risk of their Job levels being deleted. No matter how badly they play, no matter how much of a terrible Black Mage they might be, they still get to keep being a level 70 Black Mage because they worked for that.

Now, housing is a weird exception because there's an upside to demolishing a house, that there wouldn't be to taking someone's job levels away. Houses are finite - my house gets demolished, someone else gets a chance. I get why that exists. But the thing is, that system is not - and never was - designed to be a punishment for people who hadn't read enough Lodestone or Launcher articles. It's not a knowledge-check to see if you deserve to keep your Private Estate by being well-read. It's meant to take something away from someone that they've lost interest in, but the game isn't clever enough to gauge someone's interest. It has to use a metric to estimate that, and that metric is a specific kind of in-game activity involving that house.

What we're saying - at least, I know for sure I'm saying, and others seem to get it - is that if Squenix is going to use a specific metric for gauging your activity in something, they should really communicate that better. Ideally, when you start using the feature. Would that remove all possibility of user error? Nope. Someone could still forget, but you can't forget something you don't know. Someone could actually lose interest, but they'd do so knowing the consequences. And considering this is the only instance in the entire of FFXIV that I can think of where actual content gets permanently deleted without your interaction, surely you can agree that it's a bit odd that one of the severest consequences in the game has less messaging and in-game Active Help text than most other features.

My only issue with goign to SE in your case is simply you were ingame for 80 plus days after the fact. You NEVER thought to go to your plot? at all? If you didn't then the only thing that comes to my mind is if it didn't matter then why does it matter now? It clearly didn't matter the 80 days and it didn't matter the 45 days before that. Even if I say ok, you didn't know. You never once thoguht " Let me check my house" Cause even if you just walked in there for a few seconds that would've saved everything even if you knew that or not. So from my end it just looks like you never checked on it - cause if you did it'll be here- and it never matter until you randomly checked and find it's gone and now you want to quit? Thats why I called foul. And why I say nothing we can say for SE to do would change your case. I'm not trying to bag on you, I'm just lost.. cause you mentioned you are quiting over items you didn't care to check for 45 plus 80 days. It looks -off-.

With that out the way the title to your thread is a big iffy. Cause it's going to be HARD for people like me to look at your playtime and go - Oh he didn't know.- People have looked and said - HOW?- cause when you post things like " I'm invested" and then go to say " I didn't know about this even though it's a huge hot topic" looks like you're trying to blame SE for user errors. Cause yeah, SE have ALOT to fix - if they cared- about their housing system. But yeah. that's why I was where I am, I just can't get past that cause it makes no sense to me.

[Raskbuck]

If you didn't then the only thing that comes to my mind is if it didn't matter then why does it matter now? It clearly didn't matter the 80 days and it didn't matter the 45 days before that..

Because they lost seasonal event items that can no longer be obtained. I thought that was relatively clear, but apparently it wasn't.