Pushed to quit after 1,860 days subbed

[Penthea]

...Why on earth would you think that just because it's a game, a person is excluded from taking personal responsibility for their actions or lack of knowledge? It's a high horse to expect people to have accountability? Good lord.

It is when you compare buying pixels to getting a mortgage approved. Do you even know how that works? And how many warnings after warnings you get if you don't pay it? And the great deal of paperwork involved warning you of losing your home? SE's so called warnings about demolition can hardly compare. It is actually a really long process to take away someone's home in real life. Not a measly 45 days and a few emails.

What on earth should we be teaching the younger people? That it's okay to make mistakes and blame others for it instead of owning up towards the fact that you made a clear mistake or oversight?

So what you're saying is then that we should teach children about mortgages, only once, when they're unable to even get one approved, and then tell them it's their fault they don't know how it works by the time they're adults? That is what telling a lvl 15 sprout about demolition is. It's giving information at a time when it's not relevant, easily misunderstood, and most likely will be forgotten as time passes.

There isn't enough eyeroll in the universe for your attitude towards this. You seem offended at the mere thought of having information more appropriately presented.

[Sigma-Astra]

It is when you compare buying pixels to getting a mortgage approved. Do you even know how that works? And how many warnings after warnings you get if you don't pay it? And the great deal of paperwork involved warning you of losing your home? SE's so called warnings about demolition can hardly compare. It is actually a really long process to take away someone's home in real life. Not a measly 45 days and a few emails.

Yes, I do actually. And furthermore, my personal life is none of your business, so why don't you leave the personal attacks of intelligence regarding lines like "do you even know how that works?" out of the argument as your last failsafe to try and prove me wrong, mmkay? Btw, it's not a very long process. It only takes 120 days before a bank can legally start attacking you for a foreclosure if you don't pay up, that's only about 3-4 months of not paying your monthly bills in which you'll only get paper or email statements stating otherwise that can easily be ignored or neglected if you don't want to pay them or if you don't have the funds necessary. When you get served papers from the sheriff to vacate the premises so the bank can take over your house when it's foreclosed, you'll have anywhere from three days to thirty days, depending on your bank and the severity of things to leave the property. It does vary state by state as well.

So, all in all, it will possibly take you only 5 months, which can go pretty quick to lose your house irl that you could have been living in, for example, possibly longer than 3 years. It's not that long of a process to lose something that could have taken you years to build up on.

So, really, SE isn't too far off with how actual real estate works. Banks and their lawyers do not care about you usually. SE is effectively your mortgage company/bank in this regard. You have 45 days before you are effectively removed from the premises permanently. It's actually amazing and scary how close the two are in comparison here.

So what you're saying is then that we should teach children about mortgages, only once, when they're unable to even get one approved, and then tell them it's their fault they don't know how it works by the time they're adults? That is what telling a lvl 15 sprout about demolition is. It's giving information at a time when it's not relevant, easily misunderstood, and most likely will be forgotten as time passes.

There isn't enough eyeroll in the universe for your attitude towards this. You seem offended at the mere thought of having information more appropriately presented.

And you seem somehow offended about others wanting people to just take accountability for their actions which is a really simple thing to do, but apparently that's like pulling your arm into a pit of snakes. God forbid others account partially for their own mistakes. What a terrible thing and world we live in~.

[R-Pete-G]

The followup I should clarify, for people making assumptions about why I'm posting or what I'm trying to say, is that having the house demolished sucked. I don't think it's well communicated in the slightest, I still contest that the emails were insufficient (as they didn't arrive for whatever reason). But I could have chalked that up to a lesson learned, given feedback about the game system that I didn't like, and gotten on with it. I do think Square Enix are massively dropping the ball here in considering their players, but I'm not "shifting the blame", "failing to take accountability", etc.

What pushed me to pack it all in was the possessions I lost, permanently. For whatever reason, my house was demolished and that's that. In my original post I did say that I didn't expect for one second to get it back. But those furnishings that I'd collected over the years, those are the real sting. That the automatic demolition is poorly communicated is one thing, but that the reclamation of your furnishings is so unforgiving is another thing entirely.

When you stop subscribing to the game, your retainers retain (pun intended) all of your items until you come back. They're stored for you until you're ready to return and become active in the game once more. The window on reclaiming your furnishings in this instance seems either very arbitrary, or it's Square Enix clawing back some of the inventory space stored against characters that they've admitted they struggle with. And for someone who was still paying their subscription, that feels like a really bad practice.

And as Enkrateia already referred to factors that might introduce a reasonable doubt that I did not receive those emails, and I really did have no idea my house was up for demolition, what then? Would a GM see that there had obviously been some mistake, a misunderstanding for whatever the reason, and help restore those items? The clearly precious collection of years of work?

Sigma-Astra, you made a comparison to WoW when you mentioned patch notes etc. As you've already brought a "competitor" into the conversation, I'll chime in with another comparison. As a long time WoW player myself, this is the sort of thing that Blizzard (and many other MMO GM teams) would assist with to support a player continuing to enjoy the game. This makes the contrast with FFXIV even more stark, and my value as a player felt even less by comparison.




(Please be nice to one another!)

[Xiomara]

When you stop subscribing to the game, your retainers retain (pun intended) all of your items until you come back. They're stored for you until you're ready to return and become active in the game once more. The window on reclaiming your furnishings in this instance seems either very arbitrary, or it's Square Enix clawing back some of the inventory space stored against characters that they've admitted they struggle with. And for someone who was still paying their subscription, that feels like a really bad practice.

It's odd that SE went to the trouble of adding a housing storeroom so that we can move our houses, but then don't tie in the housing demolition system to it. A simple solution in your case would be that when a house is demolished, all items are moved to the storeroom, just like you were moving the house and then change the reclamation NPC so that it's an interface to said storeroom.

[R-Pete-G]

It's odd that SE went to the trouble of adding a housing storeroom so that we can move our houses, but then don't tie in the housing demolition system to it. A simple solution in your case would be that when a house is demolished, all items are moved to the storeroom, just like you were moving the house and then change the reclamation NPC so that it's an interface to said storeroom.

Indeed. It's such a practical idea, in fact, that I can't believe this isn't somehow intentional as a way to save on character data.

[Penthea]

Yes, I do actually. And furthermore, my personal life is none of your business, so why don't you leave the personal attacks of intelligence regarding lines like "do you even know how that works?" out of the argument

I did not enquire about your personal life o.O

Also I didn't insult your intelligence. You did that yourself with such a ridiculous comparison. I merely highlighted it. Don't start using comparisons to make your point if you can't handle them being criticised.

Btw, it's not a very long process. It only takes 120 days before a bank can legally start attacking you for a foreclosure. So, all in all, it will possibly take you only 5 months

So, really, SE isn't too far off with how actual real estate works. Banks and their lawyers do not care about you usually. SE is effectively your mortgage company/bank in this regard. You have 45 days before you are effectively removed from the premises permanently. It's actually amazing and scary how close the two are in comparison here.

And you continue with this silly comparison.

Buying a house in the game isn't remotely like applying for a mortgage. You get the terms of the mortgage when you apply for it, not only once at some random moment in your life before you even have the means to buy a house. For SE to do similar they would have to inform the player of demolition when they are about to buy a house, not when they're a lvl 15 sprout who can't even buy one.

This differs from country to country but I'm happy to see that even where you live the process of taking away someone's house can take several months. 45 days can hardly be compared to this timeframe. Additionally legally you must be warned several times of your lack of payments and the consequences before your home can be taken away. Two emails that can get sent directly to spam folders cannot compare. In real life that would be like having letters magically appear in your bin instead of your letter box. SE would have to give you several alerts in game to compare with a real life version of losing your home.

And you seem somehow offended about others wanting people to just take accountability for their actions which is a really simple thing to do, but apparently that's like pulling your arm into a pit of snakes. God forbid others account partially for their own mistakes. What a terrible thing and world we live in

No, your horrendous attitude that this game must somehow serve as a life lesson is what is frustrating. It's a game in which many players are too young to even have had the life experience to have the level of responsibility you claim everyone should have. Never mind how you find the mere concept of people forgetting things as an unforgivable act, and that whatever comes to them is well deserved punishment.

You are disproportionately hostile towards a tiny ui change that would only differ in when it is displayed. With the way you're acting, you'd swear I was advocating for giving everyone who lost their homes their houses back, when all I'm saying is that information of the demolition timer should be stated at a more appropriate time.

[Sigma-Astra]

snip

Considering that the OP actually did agree with my comparison, you're the only one who thinks it was and is ridiculous by your own measure. It was a decent comparison, it may not be the type of comparison that you like, but that doesn't really make it invalid just because you say so or because you personally think its silly.

You had asked if I knew how it works and I explained that I did, so I'm not sure what your problem with it is. You only saw the 120 days it takes to get towards foreclosure, and that's because it tied into your narrative more than anything. When the three to thirty days part of the actual foreclosure is more similar towards the 45 day period of when you lose your XIV house. You also act like mortgage statements can't get lost in the mail or end up in your email spam folder either which does happen. There is a possibility of the mailing system not mailing things correctly to you or delivering your statements. I'm also not sure on why you feel that people can't ignore warnings in real life, much like they do now in-game, that it's an impossible thing for someone to ignore warning after warning about something important. But, whatever, it's clear that it's impossible to convince you otherwise because you're on the fence that anyone who makes a mistake in XIV should never have to be held accountable for their own mistakes. So, we're probably going to get absolutely no where else regarding the topic as neither of us aren't going to back down from our stances. And frankly, I don't really want to continue arguing with you especially since you feel that I've insulted my own intelligence (somehow) simply from making a comparison between two similar things.

It's a 50/50 problem, but you're only blaming the one side (the devs) because it's far easier to place blame on them entirely than the actual player who played the game for five years and not once, thought to ask more about housing. It's one thing to blame them for not having any information whatsoever period, it's another thing entirely to blame them when the information is readily available and someone just didn't bother to look it up.

What happened sucked, don't get me wrong. But, it's half of the dev's fault and half of the OP's fault. It's not completely the dev's fault.

And, you don't know me well enough to talk about my attitude, so please stop making assumptions about my character as a person. I'm not being hostile, I'm being blunt and honest and if you don't like it, well, that's not really my problem, I guess? You don't really get an opportunity to dismiss or say that you're not making personal attacks or insults....because then you go and make subtle rebukes about myself as a person in multiple cases for no reason at all when I haven't really made any points against your character whatsoever in such a way.

Also I didn't insult your intelligence. You did that yourself with such a ridiculous comparison.

No, your horrendous attitude that this game must somehow serve as a life lesson is what is frustrating.

[R-Pete-G]

Considering that the OP actually did agree with my comparison, you're the only one who thinks it was and is ridiculous by your own measure. It was a decent comparison, it may not be the type of comparison that you like, but that doesn't really make it invalid just because you say so or because you personally think its silly.

Sorry, I don't want my comment to be mis-represented (and I'm not trying to fan the disagreement that seems to be raging between you both personally), but I agreed that it wasn't silly to compare it to a real life mortgage because I thought that a proper comparison would actually contradict your stance (and that comparing the auto demolition timer to missing mortgage payments was not an accurate comparison).