Pushed to quit after 1,860 days subbed

[Sigma-Astra]

But this isn't what they're saying SE should do. They're saying SE should be clearer about the presence of the demolition feature and the personal state of it for a person's house. They're not asking for patch-notes in their moogle mail or pop-ups.

And yet how often do we hear of people getting their houses demolished because they neglected to read or learn of the tools available towards them? You don't reward willful ignorance of a situation.

It doesn't take much effort to educate oneself about the housing system and if people didn't necessarily buy houses and leave them to sit there for months or years and not even put a garden in them...we probably wouldn't even have a need for an auto demolition feature to begin with, now that I think about it.

It was put into place because people buy property and then never do anything with it or they unsub from the game, don't relinquish the house first, and then it's stuck on a service account no one is using.

[Penthea]

And yet how often do we hear of people getting their houses demolished because they neglected to read or learn of the tools available towards them? You don't reward willful ignorance of a situation.

It doesn't take much effort to educate oneself about the housing system

No it doesn't but people should not have to read third party sources to find out that their house can be removed. Having something you own being taken away from you is a really big deal, and SE should make it exceptionally clear when someone buys a house. Not when they're a lvl 15 sprout who barely know how the game works and have not even 10k gil to their name.

Information about demolition is simply not relevant to a sprout. They won't be able to purchase a house for at least a few weeks, if not a few months or even over a year. You can't expect people to remember every tiny sliver of information they read. People are human. They forget things. It wouldn't kill SE to put in an additional pop-up about how demolition works directly after someone purchases a house. You know...when the information is actually relevant to them.

I have encountered plenty of people like OP, avid players of the game who eventually got a house and had no idea demolition was even a thing. They completely forgot the game even mentioned it at all. The timing of when information about the demolition timer is presented is extremely poorly timed.

[Sigma-Astra]

No it doesn't but people should not have to read third party sources to find out that their house can be removed. Having something you own being taken away from you is a really big deal, and SE should make it exceptionally clear when someone buys a house. Not when they're a lvl 15 sprout who barely know how the game works and have not even 10k gil to their name.

Information about demolition is simply not relevant to a sprout. They won't be able to purchase a house for at least a few weeks, if not a few months or even over a year. You can't expect people to remember every tiny sliver of information they read. People are human. They forget things. It wouldn't kill SE to put in an additional pop-up about how demolition works directly after someone purchases a house. You know...when the information is actually relevant to them.

I have encountered plenty of people like OP, avid players of the game who eventually got a house and had no idea demolition was even a thing. They completely forgot the game even mentioned it at all. The timing of when information about the demolition timer is presented is extremely poorly timed.

Again, it shouldn't used as an excuse whether you had forgotten all about it or you refused to read. A mortgage company isn't going to care if you felt it was unneeded to read the fine print on your home and then you decided to "forget" paying for the bill for an entire year.

There's no reason why you can't own up or take responsibility for your actions if you're also part of the problem inside an MMO either. They could put more warnings in, but people would still say it's not enough, and we'd still end up with these topics regardless. Players need to be held accountable for their actions just as much as well.

We have people who don't even read their tooltips half of the time.

[Penthea]

Again, it shouldn't used as an excuse whether you had forgotten all about it or you refused to read. A mortgage company isn't going to care if you felt it was unneeded to read the fine print on your home and then you decided to "forget" paying for the bill for an entire year.

Oh come on...this is A GAME. Are you really going to compare buying pixels to the complex undertaking of getting a mortgage approved? A lot of people who play this game are too young to legally apply for a mortgage. Get off your high horse.

There's no reason why you can't own up or take responsibility for your actions if you're also part of the problem inside an MMO either. They could put more warnings in, but people would still say it's not enough, and we'd still end up with these topics regardless. Players need to be held accountable for their actions just as much as well.

That is an extremely poor reason to not make the demolition mechanic clearer. Just because there will always be careless fools does not justify having woefully poorly timed information.

[Sigma-Astra]

Oh come on...this is A GAME. Are you really going to compare buying pixels to the complex undertaking of getting a mortgage approved? A lot of people who play this game are too young to legally apply for a mortgage. Get off your high horse.

...Why on earth would you think that just because it's a game, a person is excluded from taking personal responsibility for their actions or lack of knowledge? It's a high horse to expect people to have accountability? Good lord. What on earth should we be teaching the younger people? That it's okay to make mistakes and blame others for it instead of owning up towards the fact that you made a clear mistake or oversight? That you made a poor judgement and assumption of something, but it's okay to pass the blame solely towards the other party instead of taking partial blame as well?

We shouldn't teach the younger generation it's okay to not read everything clearly and then just blame someone else for your lack of reading later on.

That is an extremely poor reason to not make the demolition mechanic clearer. Just because there will always be careless fools does not justify having woefully poorly timed information.

...No, you just made it an actually very good reason why it doesn't matter how many times we have warning pop-up messages. There will always be careless fools.

[Penthea]

...Why on earth would you think that just because it's a game, a person is excluded from taking personal responsibility for their actions or lack of knowledge? It's a high horse to expect people to have accountability? Good lord.

It is when you compare buying pixels to getting a mortgage approved. Do you even know how that works? And how many warnings after warnings you get if you don't pay it? And the great deal of paperwork involved warning you of losing your home? SE's so called warnings about demolition can hardly compare. It is actually a really long process to take away someone's home in real life. Not a measly 45 days and a few emails.

What on earth should we be teaching the younger people? That it's okay to make mistakes and blame others for it instead of owning up towards the fact that you made a clear mistake or oversight?

So what you're saying is then that we should teach children about mortgages, only once, when they're unable to even get one approved, and then tell them it's their fault they don't know how it works by the time they're adults? That is what telling a lvl 15 sprout about demolition is. It's giving information at a time when it's not relevant, easily misunderstood, and most likely will be forgotten as time passes.

There isn't enough eyeroll in the universe for your attitude towards this. You seem offended at the mere thought of having information more appropriately presented.

[Sigma-Astra]

It is when you compare buying pixels to getting a mortgage approved. Do you even know how that works? And how many warnings after warnings you get if you don't pay it? And the great deal of paperwork involved warning you of losing your home? SE's so called warnings about demolition can hardly compare. It is actually a really long process to take away someone's home in real life. Not a measly 45 days and a few emails.

Yes, I do actually. And furthermore, my personal life is none of your business, so why don't you leave the personal attacks of intelligence regarding lines like "do you even know how that works?" out of the argument as your last failsafe to try and prove me wrong, mmkay? Btw, it's not a very long process. It only takes 120 days before a bank can legally start attacking you for a foreclosure if you don't pay up, that's only about 3-4 months of not paying your monthly bills in which you'll only get paper or email statements stating otherwise that can easily be ignored or neglected if you don't want to pay them or if you don't have the funds necessary. When you get served papers from the sheriff to vacate the premises so the bank can take over your house when it's foreclosed, you'll have anywhere from three days to thirty days, depending on your bank and the severity of things to leave the property. It does vary state by state as well.

So, all in all, it will possibly take you only 5 months, which can go pretty quick to lose your house irl that you could have been living in, for example, possibly longer than 3 years. It's not that long of a process to lose something that could have taken you years to build up on.

So, really, SE isn't too far off with how actual real estate works. Banks and their lawyers do not care about you usually. SE is effectively your mortgage company/bank in this regard. You have 45 days before you are effectively removed from the premises permanently. It's actually amazing and scary how close the two are in comparison here.

So what you're saying is then that we should teach children about mortgages, only once, when they're unable to even get one approved, and then tell them it's their fault they don't know how it works by the time they're adults? That is what telling a lvl 15 sprout about demolition is. It's giving information at a time when it's not relevant, easily misunderstood, and most likely will be forgotten as time passes.

There isn't enough eyeroll in the universe for your attitude towards this. You seem offended at the mere thought of having information more appropriately presented.

And you seem somehow offended about others wanting people to just take accountability for their actions which is a really simple thing to do, but apparently that's like pulling your arm into a pit of snakes. God forbid others account partially for their own mistakes. What a terrible thing and world we live in~.

[Claviusnex]

- snip -

...No, you just made it an actually very good reason why it doesn't matter how many times we have warning pop-up messages. There will always be careless fools.

Yes there will always be careless people and in the 30 plus years I did software engineering one of the things that got no argument from me was adding another message. It was one of the easier things to do and created a lot of good will from the customer. If someone inadvertently makes a mistake because they don't know, have forgotten or are just rushing to get done doesn't matter, I considered it part of my job to compensate for that. Keep in mind the products I worked on were supported and used by highly skilled IT professionals not your average consumer so they should have always known what to do yet even they made boneheaded mistakes. By your logic we should get rid of deletion confirmation messages because it doesn't matter that some careless person, perhaps even you, might need it to stop them from inadvertently deleting a one time item. I don't remember what you see when you buy a house but it is in all player's interests to be warned about the timer when they purchase. Then you might have an argument about that personal responsibility you are so fond of falling back on in your posts. Sorry but you are on the wrong side of this argument.

[Sigma-Astra]

Yes there will always be careless people and in the 30 plus years I did software engineering one of the things that got no argument from me was adding another message. It was one of the easier things to do and created a lot of good will from the customer. If someone inadvertently makes a mistake because they don't know, have forgotten or are just rushing to get done doesn't matter, I considered it part of my job to compensate for that. Keep in mind the products I worked on were supported and used by highly skilled IT professionals not your average consumer so they should have always known what to do yet even they made boneheaded mistakes. By your logic we should get rid of deletion confirmation messages because it doesn't matter that some careless person, perhaps even you, might need it to stop them from inadvertently deleting a one time item. I don't remember what you see when you buy a house but it is in all player's interests to be warned about the timer when they purchase. Then you might have an argument about that personal responsibility you are so fond of falling back on in your posts. Sorry but you are on the wrong side of this argument.

No, I never said to completely get rid of deletion confirmation messages and I would appreciate it if you pointed me in the right direction of where I said "please delete EVERY single message right now because I said so". I would very much appreciate you not twisting my words around in order to suit your own narrative. Thank you.

What I'm asking for is people to be held accountable for their own mistakes as well and not be so quick to judge or blame the system entirely on a gross assumption or mistake that they also made. It takes both sides here, not just one or the other. Everyone is treating and acting like it's the end of the world for one person to admit that yes, they made a simple error for the five years that they've been playing to not read up on housing information. It's not a hard thing to do to admit that maybe the OP should have taken more of an initiative in learning or asking. If they were playing for that long of a tenure, surely they could have spent the five extra minutes or so in reading patch notes or asking someone in-game about housing, even contacting the support desk in-game and trying to reach a GM to ask more questions. That's what they're there for technically, to help players in-game.

I'm sorry, but both sides are at fault here and not just SE. I don't believe in blissfully remaining ignorant about something. You have a personal responsibility that when you buy a house in XIV to keep it and pay attention towards it, and learn what you can regarding the system. And when we do have a lot of pop-up messages warning you about the timers and demolition and players still ignore them, are we still going to blame the system or are we going to finally accept that maybe people need to be held accountable for their actions as well? There could be more notifications truthfully, but at the same time, if you're playing for at least five years or better, then you really, really should be looking this stuff up.

I work in customer service as well and there's a time to allow small mistakes from a customer, and then there's a time when you need to stop holding their hands or they're going to walk all over you and expect it every time. never learning on their own.

I deal with people on a daily basis who, no matter how many signs you put up, they still find some kind of aversion towards reading them. I really don't get why people find it hard or don't want to read sometimes.