Let's talk about Hunts - a detailed rundown of their assumed mechanics

[CableMonkey]

Recently, I've been keeping track of where the A and B rank mobs pop for Kaiser. I don't have enough data to say this is proven yet, but I've noticed where he has spawned in the past 3 times I've kept track, absolutely no B or A ranks were found there since the last maintenance/Kaiser kill. This is with me going out there and killing the B ranks for several hours over and over each time.

I actually posted this way back when and was quickly dismissed as not valid. Over time, I realized the issues this could cause, but because my text was quoted, deleting said text would be useless. I remember this specific problem just under a year ago:

Gilgamesh is having trouble with the same hunt bot character that showed up at the start of Stormblood. It either unsubbed or got a 3 month temp ban but came back in 4.1 and is now back to its usual MO. Automates all of the ARR S triggers and will run the same script search paths (over and over again after each glimmer/judge catch). Runs a PLD for ARR and healer for SB. Invites people shouting lfg, instant pulls when a couple join (whether they are there or not) and then gives a /p ty and instantly disbands after it dies. Will /shout <t> <pos> on A ranks while doing search paths to invite people while it pulls. Also seen botting mark bills, DF, roulettes to level alternate classes as well as crafting materials that are macro-able.

Some information falling into the wrong hands can cause more harm than good. The above case is an excellent example of why this info wasn't shared here (by me anyway) in more detail. Had that bot known this, I hate to think of the outcome. I feel slightly responsible because of my maps, as the purpose was to assist the legitimate players with finding B, A, and S rank marks, not to fuel some selfish bot.

So now that this info is out in the public, the only thing we can do is hope for the best. If problems arise, I can only recommend we petition SE to change the hunt spawning algorithm to be less predictable.

[KageTokage]

So now that this info is out in the public, the only thing we can do is hope for the best. If problems arise, I can only recommend we petition SE to change the hunt spawning algorithm to be less predictable.

Or they could just stop being incompetent and start banning obvious bots with some semblance of frequency like any self-respecting MMORPG would. It's easier then having to rewrite the game's coding and is actually effective when it's being used against bots that aren't being mass-produced with a script like the gil farmers. I feel like there's something fundamentally flawed with their screening process for suspected botters that's causing them to overlook them, because they really aren't subtle at all once you learn to spot the various unavoidable abnormalities in their behavior they exhibit (Their unusual movement patterns being the main thing).

It would also probably do a world of good if they stopped giving S rank hunts infinite draw distance (By that, I mean making it so they only can be seen when you're near them like with A/B ranks) so people can't instantly locate/call them with a sniffer program, because that's been causing a lot of frustration on my end of things. The way it usually goes is that me and rest of the S rank spawning team I'm part are spread out across all of the zones with S ranks that are available to spawn, and if one does spawn, then we'll take a moment to group together then call it for the people who don't actively hunt them. The sniffers throw a big wrench in that because it makes every hunt they detect become a mad dash to get to it before it gets killed due to there regularly being that guy who wants to pull it as soon as they get there, plus they don't even try to spawn the things most of the time.

[KageTokage]

I don't usually double post, but I felt the need to clarify that the servers did not reset after the maintenance, so I ended up missing a bunch of S ranks and am feeling rather stupid.

[NoboruSouma]

I don't see how it can be abused.

You've been given an example:

Gilgamesh is having trouble with the same hunt bot character that showed up at the start of Stormblood. It either unsubbed or got a 3 month temp ban but came back in 4.1 and is now back to its usual MO. Automates all of the ARR S triggers and will run the same script search paths (over and over again after each glimmer/judge catch). Runs a PLD for ARR and healer for SB. Invites people shouting lfg, instant pulls when a couple join (whether they are there or not) and then gives a /p ty and instantly disbands after it dies. Will /shout <t> <pos> on A ranks while doing search paths to invite people while it pulls. Also seen botting mark bills, DF, roulettes to level alternate classes as well as crafting materials that are macro-able.

And most importantly:

Just because your server's hunt community plays nice doesn't necessary mean evey other server is the same. It's been briefly mentioned before in thread and everyone was smart enough to move along because anyone that actually knows something, knows it's best to leave things alone to keep the peace.

Anyone being able to program some shit like this will screw up the hunt community.
On many servers the hunt community isn't that loved anyway - more so the s rank spawners. the system has so many flaws you can easily screw people.

People spawn S Ranks for fun. A huge part doesn't use third party programs to see if something spawns because they just don't want to even if they could.

This information is a "nice to know", not a "let's use it a few hours to pinpoint the next spawn location." at any given chance.

Someone already link said post to subreddit gg. Sorry to all the populated servers.

And that's what disgusts me a little. I already raised my concerns in a comment over there and got downvoted to hell in seconds. I deleted it because who cares if kids don't read it or think about it. It's the same old thing:

"Oh, this makes it easier for us so it has to be good. No way it can be bad. Why apply common sense and think about it in depth?"

Oh...that explain a lot. Well pretty sure it got leaked by a exiled spawner to a certain community that-must-not-be-named and made it to the wild.

And then there is spawner war like in Odin. That's where infos like this is volatile.

Yea, it probably was some exiled spawner or someone who found it out (anyone who tests theories comes to this at some point) and was so excited to shout it out.

Someone on Louisoix found out about it, I don't know how, months ago. We had intern fights in our Linkshell about if we should use it or not. Some do it. Some don't. Some just from time to time, but we never talked about it to someone outside of the Linkshell.
It got to a point where we got in fights with each other. Some seasoned spawners then left over time, even switched servers because "The Hunt Community on this server is trash.".

I get it, it's not bad on SOME NA and EU servers - and the JP servers are on a whole different level so we can't compare it in any way - but we have those servers where the hunt community is screwed, really screwed and it's just a toxic environment so informations like this don't make anything better.

Uh its been common knowledge on Balmung for a while now so I don't see how it was secret

So? That doesn't mean anything. I really would like the source or the origin this information came from.

Keep it in your linkshells, keep it in your discord servers of some sort. But don't put it in a damn s rank spawning guide - what kind of move is that? And even worse: put this out on reddit. This forum? Well, it's fine, many people forget about this thread now and then and it only comes back to it's full attention after an expansion launches and we theorycraft about triggers. It gets back to it's quite state and only gets used by seasoned spawners anyway.

And many people don't wanna read through hundreds of posts in such a large thread.

Cable and I talked about it nearly a year ago. It wasn't "common knowledge" back then. People had their theories, yes, but most of them were too lazy to test it out. It took hours .. more likely days to test stuff.

Even now it takes days or weeks to test stuff because you have to wait for the right time. It was hell to test stuff back then when I was on Cerberus. It's bad to test stuff on high populated servers when there's even a slightly toxic behaviour in the hunt community.

Some information falling into the wrong hands can cause more harm than good. The above case is an excellent example of why this info wasn't shared here (by me anyway) in more detail. Had that bot known this, I hate to think of the outcome. I feel slightly responsible because of my maps, as the purpose was to assist the legitimate players with finding B, A, and S rank marks, not to fuel some selfish bot.

So now that this info is out in the public, the only thing we can do is hope for the best. If problems arise, I can only recommend we petition SE to change the hunt spawning algorithm to be less predictable.

Even without the maps botters could easiy find all the spots by itself. It helps out the hunt community so don't feel responsible for it.

We wrote to SE many times that they need to rework their hunt system. That it has become bad since it's release, that many people abuse it or screw over the community. But we hear the same excuse every time.

"The Hunt isn't meant to be done by many people. It's alright to kill S Ranks by a party of 8."

This has a true ring to it, yet it's just POLITE and GENUINE to shout it out to Linkshells and to share the sighting of a Hunt with the community, because ... you know .. that's what healthy communities do anyway. A piece of the cake for everyone.

Or they could just stop being incompetent and start banning obvious bots with some semblance of frequency like any self-respecting MMORPG would. It's easier then having to rewrite the game's coding and is actually effective when it's being used against bots that aren't being mass-produced with a script like the gil farmers. I feel like there's something fundamentally flawed with their screening process for suspected botters that's causing them to overlook them, because they really aren't subtle at all once you learn to spot the various unavoidable abnormalities in their behavior they exhibit (Their unusual movement patterns being the main thing).

It would also probably do a world of good if they stopped giving S rank hunts infinite draw distance (By that, I mean making it so they only can be seen when you're near them like with A/B ranks) so people can't instantly locate/call them with a sniffer program, because that's been causing a lot of frustration on my end of things. The way it usually goes is that me and rest of the S rank spawning team I'm part are spread out across all of the zones with S ranks that are available to spawn, and if one does spawn, then we'll take a moment to group together then call it for the people who don't actively hunt them. The sniffers throw a big wrench in that because it makes every hunt they detect become a mad dash to get to it before it gets killed due to there regularly being that guy who wants to pull it as soon as they get there, plus they don't even try to spawn the things most of the time.

As I said, they need to rework the Hunt system and yes, take botters more serious.

If third party triggers get abused so hard, then yes, they should be taken care of as well. Yet it's only guildworks and their brothers and sisters that really screwed us over, so I don't know if it is that bad with trigger call-outs in other programs.

[dmcincubus]

Yes, I understand I was given an example AFTER I stated that I don’t see how it can be abused. No need to put me on blast like I’m ignoring the details.

Bottom line, this was already public knowledge. I found out about this info in a Discord channel. Cablemonkey posted about the theory in here 2 years ago. Please point your passive aggressive posts somewhere else.

[NoboruSouma]

Yes, I understand I was given an example AFTER I stated that I don’t see how it can be abused. No need to put me on blast like I’m ignoring the details.

Bottom line, this was already public knowledge. I found out about this info in a Discord channel. Cablemonkey posted about the theory in here 2 years ago. Please point your passive aggressive posts somewhere else.

Yet there is no real acknowledging the problems that come up with it. Because you guys have fun with it.

Me being passive aggressive is me trying to defend and speak up for a huge part of The Hunt Community who had to deal with a lot of bs the past few months.

It's (harsh) criticism. In a forum you brought this up. Please consider taking it, there's no bad blood.

[KageTokage]

It doesn't affect things on my end, since me and others already knew about it, but someone who got ousted from our group for refusing to stop using a sniffer (And attracting a number of bad apples as a side effect) spread knowledge of it.

In spite of this, I've only ever seen non-trollish hunters taking advantage of it, so it hasn't really changed anything. The sniffer remains the biggest source of hunt drama currently.

[alimdia]

It would also probably do a world of good if they stopped giving S rank hunts infinite draw distance (By that, I mean making it so they only can be seen when you're near them like with A/B ranks) so people can't instantly locate/call them with a sniffer program, because that's been causing a lot of frustration on my end of things.

Infinite draw distance is a necessity because otherwise the S rank will not render if there are too many people, it has to be rendered along with other elements of the map when you load the zone.

[Kirsten_Rev]

It would also probably do a world of good if they stopped giving S rank hunts infinite draw distance (By that, I mean making it so they only can be seen when you're near them like with A/B ranks) so people can't instantly locate/call them with a sniffer program, because that's been causing a lot of frustration on my end of things. The way it usually goes is that me and rest of the S rank spawning team I'm part are spread out across all of the zones with S ranks that are available to spawn, and if one does spawn, then we'll take a moment to group together then call it for the people who don't actively hunt them. The sniffers throw a big wrench in that because it makes every hunt they detect become a mad dash to get to it before it gets killed due to there regularly being that guy who wants to pull it as soon as they get there, plus they don't even try to spawn the things most of the time.

It seems to me that a good middle ground here might be an overworld graphic of sorts that appears when an S rank's spawn condition has been met, and lasts for, say, 5 - 10 minutes, before the monster actually spawns. Basically, take the 'when to engage' decision out of the hands of the players. Couple that with a zone-wide message indicating the spawn (so that the spawner(s) know to start looking), and I think a lot of the stress I see around S rank claiming would be resolved.

Infinite draw distance is a necessity because otherwise the S rank will not render if there are too many people, it has to be rendered along with other elements of the map when you load the zone.

While true at the moment, SE would be best advised to just rebuild their rendering priority mechanism. People in your party and all monsters on a given map - from lowly trash all the way up to S ranks - should always be given rendering priority over other players. An adjustment here would make a lot of their large-group content a lot more playable.

[Kazgrel]

It doesn't affect things on my end, since me and others already knew about it, but someone who got ousted from our group for refusing to stop using a sniffer (And attracting a number of bad apples as a side effect) spread knowledge of it.

In spite of this, I've only ever seen non-trollish hunters taking advantage of it, so it hasn't really changed anything. The sniffer remains the biggest source of hunt drama currently.

Then what is the point in all the whining the last page or two of this thread if people aren’t being jerks/trolls when given a tool that could be abused?

The people trying to keep a lid on the “tricks of the trade” when it comes to hunts draw far more scrutiny. It’s hunts, ffs. We’re all on the same team...but sadly there will be folks that go “lol eff you all” and bot or abuse sniffers by pretending to afk in a zone with potential S rank spawn while they watch Netflix or whatever. Better to encourage reasonable use of sniffer ish tools. Can’t think of any legit reason to not hunts of course (or anything else in game for that matter, but that’s a whole other can of worms). Those sort of folks are a minority in my experience on 2 servers.