The Road to 5.0

[ChandraNoctis]

Here's my pet tinfoil hat theory...

Light represents order not 'good', Dark is chaos or entropy not 'evil' (yes i know this isn't exactly right wrt to entropy but this is not a physics theory).

Life is inherently exists by increasing and maintaining order but cannot exist without chaos since then everything would be static and stationary.

The void is complete chaos - free aether, no order. The flood of light is complete order - nothing moves or lives, everything is static.

Aether tends towards free flowing chaos but life and the life stream keeps it ordered enough for things to exist.

Hydaelyn and Zodiark are artificial constructs designed to keep the balance by a previous population who foresaw the Calamities. They are sentient but don't know what they are or what their true purpose is (intentionally as one must work for Light and one for Darkness in order for the balance to be kept).

The actual 'goodness' or 'evil' of our actions are meaningless as long as they don't tip the balance between order and chaos.

Elidibus is the only one who knows this to be true (or at least most of it) and is trying to use this knowledge for his own gains.

The song isn't about two different WoL or two different possibilities but two different perspectives on the same events.

[Rasler_Heios]

A friend noted how funny it would sound if that's the next expansion title, so we'll have ARR, HW, SB ... and another SB...!
SB2: Magitek Boogaloo

A different acronym would be nice... SB2, ugh, I was thinking they’d make an epic expansion title...

[Lubu_Mykono]

Trademarks are taken out all the time to protect concepts and ideas that are tied to brands a lot of the time. Square Enix pumps out a lot of content, saying it's tied to FFXIV that Shadowbringers might be right but I can't see an expansion being called that.

Shadowbringers almost sounds like a villiainous group like Team Rocket or Suicide Squad etc, since we are just "introduced to Shadowhunters". Sounds like an Ascian fangirl group or something. if that trademark is FFXIV related it's probably not the game title for the next expansion.

[Kallera]

Here how I think the poem could relate to us, assuming Zenos’s possession trick is not a major theme.

Born of the poems refer to the hero, blue, crimson, and the result, light or darkness. While the first poem makes an obvious, sound of uplifting and inspiring:what Or work in Eorzea has been doing, perhaps the 2nd poem is more a garlean interpretation of what the Warrior of Light is: a deceiver of copious bloodshed that takes away the “light” of civilization. Or perhaps, through the events of the future, that is what the Character becomes to them.

[Vulcwen]

One thing about that trademark, there is nothing (unless it's that ID that they provided) that indicates a connection to FF14, it could just be another game they're working on.

[Ramesses]

There are so many excellent comments, speculations and decryptions stated in this thread that I'm just going to list mine below in the order in which I've jotted them on my notes. This will be lengthy... but I'm bored and all my meetings today got cancelled, so plenty time on my hands for the rest of the day. Thus, I will punctuate my post below with a few images so as to make reading my banterings much easier on the eyes. Also, if you are reading this thread and got to this page (page 6) then you already know there are spoilers abound and it is assumed that you have finished the MSQ up to patch 4.3.


Full disclosure so I can side-step the morality debate related to the Garleans (since it is indeed somewhat off-topic):
I am a fan of what the Garlean Empire could be... which is one of the core reasons I've always been very interested in their politics, culture and history. There have been a lot of brilliant debates on this thread as to the validity of their actions for global conquest, the morality of their deeds and etc etc etc. However, it must be said that I still do not believe all of them to be mindless territory grabbers... and in all fairness to them, they did have their own era of extreme suffering as well, in the blistering cold, no less. Today, they have an empire that apparently covers everything the cloud touches in that map --- by the way, anyone really notice the mass of clusters floating above the Garlean capital on the map? See image below... somehow I reckon this as well will be a critical location when 5.0 arrives. Reminds me of the Zilart island in FFXI... we used to refer to it as "sky").

In the end, I can respect the views that they have destroyed lives and upset the social balance of millions of lives on the planet (for instance, I'm still hoping the Devs will continue the questline for Drest so I can help him get back home)... but there are always two sides to a coin, three if we go by the words of the great Terry Pratchett (the edge is the third side). More on this another time but for now... lets just blame it all on Ascian meddling and get back on the main topic.



First off Elidibus and his part on the path to 5.0 MSQ:
He now continues to strike me as being even more sinister than initially imagined. He keeps humming this tune about working towards the salvation of this star (or "dimension") and our part in establishing a vision for a wholesome balance across the Final Fantasy "universe". However, he doesn't really furnish us with clear concrete evidence of what we need to do to achieve this so called "salvation".

What really, really, really worries me is the thought that this chap might actually be "developing" the WoL to become the corporeal vessel for Zordiark. Think about it... Hydaelyn and Zordiark are apparent mirrors of each other, the shadow that accurately reflects the light. Now, remember how Minifilia was able "ascend" to become "one" with Hydaelyn? The specifics are a little more complicated than that but the core matter remains that Milifinia arguably "transcended" to become a part of Hydaelyn. Is this what that creepy punk Elidibus is planning for us?



Not to mention, in the last cutscene for 4.3, Varis reminds him that the eikons cannot be tolerated but he slyly assures the Emperor that it was necessary during that battle with Tsuyu... but wait, didn't Lahabrea consistently babble on and on that the eikons were not to be tolerated under any circumstances? And yet, the Empire had her as an ace up their sleeve all this time.

Interesting.

In addition, his manipulations and "mentorship" with Unukalhai gives me a lot of pause for thought because the more I research his history with the kid, the more I'm convinced he's just using him. Thankfully, I firmly believe the kid is nothing like him and has seemingly now begun to further his own agenda that will likely help the WoL in the future. Nonetheless, lets still keep a weary eye on him... there was a time (when his face was initially revealed), that I even speculated him to be young Solus from the future-past-whatever under the guidance of Elidibus ---dunno, must've been the hair colour. Eventually, we hear his story and how wrong i was... but yeah, I still believe this young man still has his part to play.



That said, Elidibus has obviously been tinkering in world politics for far longer than we imagine... I personally suspect he may have even had involvements with the rise and eventual demise of the Allagan Empire and then quietly relegated himself to the sidelines for eons until now. He has likely upped his participation a whole notch once the Seventh Astral began for mysterious reasons... and my gut feeling tells me he had a lot of dealings with Solus in the past.



Emperor Solus and the far reaching effects of his empire on the path to 5.0 MSQ
This is one Garlean character I have been eagerly awaiting to delve into. Young, brilliant, charismatic 24 year old military genius becomes a Legatus and nobody bats an eyelid? How did he do it when he only joined the military at age sixteen? Sure, he had the distinguished lineage, the necessary family name and intellect but how did he get his hands on Magitek technology in the first place? There has to be a lot more to their extremely rapid technological advancement than just having Cid's father Midas at his side. Solus must have been one heck of a guy, with a heck of team around him, and a heck of Cerulean resources at his disposal... and I will say it again, were Team Solus made up of some Allagans? Ascians? Or someone else?

Either way, he had some serious help from them, and there was something very life-changing that he saw at the Burn which wholly convinced him to declare war on eikons with such vigour. I want to know that story because somehow it ties into why Shadowhunter elected to make that place his apparent base of operations (a brilliant tactical location to hide since it's apparently devoid of any aether or life). This information will also be key on our journey to Garlemald and why he favoured Gaius and Nael so much in the past. Yes, yes, yes, Nael was the son of one of the founding fathers and Gaius always distinguished himself with his keen loyalty (killing nine aspirants and all that)...

...However, I have mentioned a while back on these forums, there had to have been something much more as to why those two were called the Raven and the Wolf. Perhaps it's just me but I keep getting the sense that Solus is like Odin (see image below, I think I posted this a while back)



Which brings me to...

Gaius and his part to play on our path to 5.0:
I cannot stress enough how excited I am about this guy's re-appearance. He will serve as our focal point for our Echo abilities to view a LOT about the past histories of the Empire, Solus' rise to power, the other Legati, the real agenda of the Ascians, the Frumentarii and so much more. Ohhhh one more thing... now that we know what he looks like, Nero's resemblance to him is... compelling... unless, maybe, I took this artwork I found (a while back) too much to heart-- the artist had made Gaius a blondie like Nero.



Here's one other mystery I really want to know about Gaius... is there something unusual he knows about the Twelve and the Ascians? Does he see the WoL, the WoD and other Echo users as unfortunate proxies in their "war"? As such, is he planning to give Man back the power to dictate their own actions within this universe (similar to how Vayne Solidor carried out his plans in FFXII?). Back then he kept emphasizing the notion of the strong ruler, and saying to the WoL some lines along the themes of:

Only a man of power can rightly steer civilization
Why do you grovel at the Twelve's feet?
Such power as yours befits a ruler!

Does he still think like that? Will patch 4.4 or the journey to 5.0 expatiate on his new ideals? Plus, I seriously want to know how epic he was in his younger years and how he came to establish himself as Solus' favourite... afterall, he was so held in high esteem by the Emperor that he was given his own brand spanking new legion, the XIVth. In ancient Rome, one had to be a member of the Senate, or from a super influential wealthy family to attain the rank of Legatus; so either Gaius was related to Solus (I'm still hoping for that)... or he had performed such incredible feats for King and country. But more on that another time.

More importantly, I keep sensing that it is through Gaius and his recent (assassinations?) of a few Ascians that we will get to finally understand what the Heart of Sabik really means. When we first fought Gaius and Lahabrea at the Praetorium in 2.0, the Ascian mentions it as being so powerful that even the ancient Allagans didn't decode all its secrets. This still intrigues me...where is the Heart of Sabik now? It stands to reason that it if is even a fraction as powerful as Lahabrea says it is, then it did NOT get destroyed when we defeated Ultima.

So is it in Gaius hands now? Does it have anything to do with abilities to transcend?



Aulus and the ramifications of his work on the path to 5.0 MSQ:

Yes, the mad scientist is apparently dead but this talk of "transcendence" had me remembering our battle with him: anyone remember when he would do the "soul extraction" ability during the fight and we had to stagger back to our bodies? Yeah... I'm still wondering about that and I know we haven't seen the last of this move. Plus, Zenos coins it perfectly when he repeatedly asks us during our battle with him (I particularly like the specific intonation in his voice when he says it)

Have you the strength?
The power to transcend!

Which then brings us to these lines extracted from The Wandering Mistrel's poem during this Rising event...

Upon your breast a crimson crest
Shine Light down from on high
O hero of rebirth transcending

These three lines got me thinking that the WoL will face a mortal wound to the chest, will be "revived" (possibly by Hydaelyn or Garlean Technology?) and then transcend into a stronger being... almost divine like?

Page 15 of my much beloved Encyclopedia Eorzea Volume One establishes that the Echo grants the power to transcend Words, Time and Worlds. The third type of transcendence, "Worlds", is what I think we will really delve into as we begin our path to 5.0... and the Ascians will either be terrified of our ability to use it or will try to use it against us to further their weird ambitions. In the end, I also want to believe this ability will also grant us the avenue to go back in time to the Allagan Empire (to fix things?)... yeah, that could be the foundations of the 6.0 expansion.

Yes indeed... much of this will be fascinating to see unfold.

[Berethos]

We'll just have to agree to disagree. Again, the nations and individuals resorting to such behaviour do so in large part because they do not have the plot convenience of the Warrior of Light to fall back on.

Last I checked, the Eorzean nations didn't attempt to go on a conquering spree over the past 50 years before the WoL showed up. Additionally, we ostensibly act as Hydaelyn's Champions to combat a specific type of threat, that of the primals. As supported by the in-game lore and the lore book, the expansion of Garlemald (beyond Ilsbard) began before Solus had learned of the destructive potential of primals...

As such, the conclusion that nations like Garlemald are as ruthless as they are because that is how they deal with the primal threat falls apart because they were that ruthless before they knew of the primal threat. Ruthless conquest has been their modus operandi since they invented Magitek. If they are harsh with how they deal with the primal threat, it's because they are harsh with how they deal with every threat until it is subjugated, at which point they force it to live under their heel (think Seanchan from Wheel of Time, if you're familiar with that series).

Finally - I'm not debating overall morality of actions, I'm debating whether a specific interpretation of motivations are supported by current lore.

[Theodric]

Again, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Eorzea has a long and colourful history and has engaged in various shady acts over the years. That goes for both distant and recent history. I also stated earlier that Pureblood Garleans did not have the luxury of the Warrior of Light to fall back on yet I also pointed out that they did not have the luxury of being able to manipulate aether, either. The Eorzeans, however, did - but even then, they came pretty close to war on a number of occasions. The Archbishop of Ishgard was clearly planning his ascension into a Primal for some time and once he did succeed in his mission he immediately announced his intention to force all of Eorzea to fall in line with his ideals. Which is to say nothing of the distrust that existed between the three main city states...ironically only leading to them putting aside their differences when Garlemald came to their doorsteps.

At any rate, Garlemald's ruthlessness is stated in the lore book to be due to the horrific persecution that they have endured over the years. When people are forced out of fertile lands and left with no choice but to carve out a living for themselves in a wasteland then it should not be at all surprising that they have a low opinion of those who persecuted them. Extending that to those who didn't is also an easy enough leap to make - the attempt to conquer and control is clearly born out of a misguided desire to never be a victim ever again. Personally I'd be completely fine with Garlemald keeping the assets it has obtained already and ceasing any further expansion, pushing reform that will enhance Garlemald's stability overall.

I have no interest in Zenos' particular brand of 'Empire'. Though thankfully he is the exception rather than the rule...and was considered to be a poor fit as ruler by his own father.

[Grimr]

assuming shadowbringers is indeed the name of the next expansion, if we were to go to garelmald it would signal the end of ff14. It would end up leading to zodiark and that will the end of the part one story line. There is far too much left to explore of eorzea and i am in no hurry to end it. We have a southern continent that i am dying to explore and i even expect at some point a void sent invasion of eorzea. We can always look into something messed up about amdapor, mhachi, or thte last one that escapes me. There is plenty of allagan ruins to explore. In the end we won't know for certain til at least 4.5.

[ObsidianFire]

Just so that we're all clear on the timeline of when things happened in Garlemald... Garlemald has been an Empire for about 80 years. Garlemald was a Republic for 800 years before it became an Empire. The people who would become the Garleans were forced north to present day Garlemald at least 100 years before that. So it's been approximately 980 years since the Garleans were forced north for the final time.

I'm sorry, but if the Garleans are really trying to sell that their expansion is somehow justified by what they went through almost a millennia ago, I'd think they're bald-faced liars about why they're expanding their borders. It'd be like saying present day Turkey would be justified if it invaded Germany because the Holy Roman Empire grabbed territory from the Byzantine Empire a millennia ago. The politics of Europe have changed so much in that time that that rational is laughable. I don't see how the politics of Ilsabard would be any different. Since the Garlean Republic was founded, whatever other contries were there at the time have probably risen and fallen, the people groups around them have probably changed, etc. In that same time period, Eorzea saw Belah'dia be split by civil war, Limsa Lominsa be founded, the Gelmora underground abandoned in favor of Gridania, and Gyr Abania is finally united at Ala Mhigo. I fully expect similar things happened in Othard and Ilsabard.

At some point, past slights should be left where they belong: in the past. If a millennia isn't long enough for past slights to be forgotten (or at least forgiven, after all, the original doers of the dead are long dead), then I'd say someone is purposely nursing a grudge. And grudges tend to not be able to be reasoned with...

I'd rather it really turn out that Garlemald did expand it's borders because it wanted to deal with the eikons. It at least gives them the maturity to grow past their origins. 'Cause if it really is just because of what they went through a millennia ago? Garlemald would be a good contender for having the most immature leaders of any country in the game currently.

I don't know. I just really, really hope the reason Garlemald started expanding its borders was not because of a millennia-old grudge.