Being a bad mentor(we should be able to report ppl for being a bad mentor)

[Thamorian]

Not a mentor roulette then.
So the guy wasn't expecting advice on gameplay - at all.
So bad context to give an advice, sadly for you.
Yes he is a lvl 70 and can't BLM.
But he didn't come for advices.
He came for the daily bonus, not to be told on his gameplay (which he's probably been told about more than once)
Yes, your advice wasn't welcomed at all in that context.

What would've I done ?
Stayed silent - and get a nice parse for myself.
And it already happened many times.

In the end, a "bad" DPS in a dungeon isn't actually a problem at all, less than when it is the tank or the healer.
In case of a less experienced healer or tank, I do with pots, self heal and aggro reducing skills...
If things really go bad, I will eventually drop a tanking/healing tip, but if I get a f- off in response, then I'll just take it on me and stop advising, or leave if it's really too bad.

I'll leave out all the "I am not here to carry noobs" talk... Idc at all...

edit :
So I just wanted to make sure - as a reminder this is what appears when you turn on the mentor icon :
https://ibb.co/cPVwtU
The second point says it all : be an examplar for player etiquette...

And most importantly : Yes bad mentor behavior might be reported.
Though I thought I heard somewhere about getting stripped of the title, it is not mentionned here at all, but I believe a temp ban from the title could be given.

When Mentors queue into mentor roulettes, that just used as a filler for all the other roulettes combined. Sprout queues for Satasha specifically or leveling roulette and a mentor from Mentor Roulette might get placed with the sprout. The sprout has no way of know if the mentor came from a mentor roulette.

Just because you have your own vision of what you think a mentor should be does not mean that's how it actually is, no matter how hard you wish it. You nor SE is paying the people who are mentors or compensating them in anyway. They are not employees of SE. They are regular players with their own things they need and want to do, crown or no crown.

[SenorPatty]

Not a mentor roulette then.
So the guy wasn't expecting advice on gameplay - at all.
So bad context to give an advice, sadly for you.
Yes he is a lvl 70 and can't BLM.
But he didn't come for advices.
He came for the daily bonus, not to be told on his gameplay (which he's probably been told about more than once)
Yes, your advice wasn't welcomed at all in that context.

What would've I done ?
Stayed silent - and get a nice parse for myself.
And it already happened many times.

In the end, a "bad" DPS in a dungeon isn't actually a problem at all, less than when it is the tank or the healer.
In case of a less experienced healer or tank, I do with pots, self heal and aggro reducing skills...
If things really go bad, I will eventually drop a tanking/healing tip, but if I get a f- off in response, then I'll just take it on me and stop advising, or leave if it's really too bad.

I'll leave out all the "I am not here to carry noobs" talk... Idc at all...

edit :
So I just wanted to make sure - as a reminder this is what appears when you turn on the mentor icon :
https://ibb.co/cPVwtU
The second point says it all : be an examplar for player etiquette...

And most importantly : Yes bad mentor behavior might be reported.
Though I thought I heard somewhere about getting stripped of the title, it is not mentionned here at all, but I believe a temp ban from the title could be given.

This is how I know you're part of the problem. There is no bad context to give advice when your dps is bad. Especially in Jijifli's case.

The dps came for his daily bonus and so did Jijifli. Why should that mean that he/she should have to put up with that after getting told "F-off"?

If you want to support bad gameplay and get a nice "parse" as you so put it, go ahead but don't excuse that dps' behaviour and make someone who was trying to help the bad guy.

I'm not a fan of the mentor system in itself, but when there's already a negative stereotype about mentors using the system to power trip and then you have people like Jijifli actually trying to help, we should be encouraging them so that they don't give up cuz of some badly behaved players.

[Moogly]

Also since you chose to link a picture, you seemed to dodge number 1. Provide gameplay advice for new adventurers and OTHER PLAYERS. It specifically mentioned it doesn't have to be a sprout. And since I was meant to actively perform it, doesn't that mean I should be giving advice where it's needed?

Thing is, I don't wear the mentor icon

Oh and the link a picture thing didn't work that's why i put a link

.

All that talk about respect is nice and all, but did it ever come to you that it could be a 12 y.o holding that ps4 controller ?

[Jijifli]

Thing is, I don't wear the mentor icon

Oh and the link a picture thing didn't work that's why i put a link

I don't anymore either. It's much less stressful to just throw a vote kick without a word. Can't threaten me outside of the instance if there's no "hostility" right?

Also, it's the image address. Not the website.

This is how I know you're part of the problem. There is no bad context to give advice when your dps is bad. Especially in Jijifli's case.

The dps came for his daily bonus and so did Jijifli. Why should that mean that he/she should have to put up with that after getting told "F-off"?

If you want to support bad gameplay and get a nice "parse" as you so put it, go ahead but don't excuse that dps' behaviour and make someone who was trying to help the bad guy.

This right here. The attitude I get trying to help makes me not want to help.

Also, since Moogly loves the "teacher" example, let's use it. You're teaching a class in school. A student is having trouble with an assignment, and it's clear they don't know what they're doing. You, the teacher, go to assist the student. Maybe they just misunderstand something. Maybe they just did the formula wrong here. Who knows? You go up, try to help the student, being polite and patient.

The student in response shouts at you, calling you things, being very verbally aggressive. What do you do? Sit there and take it? Let them do what they want?

No. You either send them to the principals or you call an authority in the building for these situations. Or I guess my high school was different since we did have verbally aggressive students. One kid called me slurs in front of the teacher because I wanted to do my assignment, and I asked him kindly to stop loudly talking next to me.

[van_arn]

Sometimes the best advice a mentor can offer is to read your tooltips and initiate a vote kick.

That's more helpful to some people than anyone on these forums would admit.

[era1Ne]

Just because you have your own vision of what you think a mentor should be does not mean that's how it actually is, no matter how hard you wish it. You nor SE is paying the people who are mentors or compensating them in anyway. They are not employees of SE. They are regular players with their own things they need and want to do, crown or no crown.

I think you’re totally right about that and the vision is for me the reason to say "no" to such a report system, because there is no clear vision, outside of the ingame text posted earlier, and there are hundreds of visions from the community about what an mentor should do and get away with. Taking that into account, how would an extra report function for mentors fix anything? Imo it would create more salt and uproar than there should be really. Don't get me wrong, some mentors shouldn't be mentors, cause their attitiude is bad, but the same can be said about other gamer like novice player. For that reason, i removed my crown.

Sometimes advice isn't wanted and how should mentors know, if the new player struggles and wants help? We can't and even if we could, personally i wouldn't write an essay about the world, the class and explaining every fight in detail, unless someone in the group asks for it. I've seen newbie players that want everything explained without saying anything and if the mentor doesn't explain, they thought it was valid to kick, insult or report them... For what exactly? If you don't speak up, don't expect help. I can be very patient depending on my mood but imo no player in the group, should expect a carry. If i see progress and if nobody pulls instantly, while someone else explains the mechanics or if nobody is trolling in any shape or form, then i am willing to stay as long as i can or needed for the clear. After all, every mentor as every other players has a real life besides FF to take care of and wasting time doesn't make sense for anyone.

I understand both sides, but ultimately nobody should generalize and treat or approve every mentor/newbie player in the same way, because some of those players are rude or not very helpful. It's easier said than done, but imo this is the main issue with the whole mentor "vs." newbie discussions.

[Rymm]

All that talk about respect is nice and all, but did it ever come to you that it could be a 12 y.o holding that ps4 controller ?

What on god's green earth does respect have to do with age? Or are you implying age is tied to ability; that a 12 year old is incapable of improving so we shouldn't bother to try to help anyone? In either case, age doesn't factor into the equation at all so I can't fathom why you thought it necessary to bring up.

Old, young, sprout, no sprout, mentor, whatever- if I see someone struggling (either with mechanics or their class) to the point where it is detrimental to the run, I politely offer help. If they struggle but are obviously trying, that's fine. If they actually improve, that's great! If they say or do nothing, or worse, cop an attitude, I initiate a vote kick. Life is too short to be forced to deal with awful people, especially in a leisure activity.

When I am on the receiving end of well-intentioned advice, which happens to everyone from time to time, I try my best to submit to it in the same spirit in which it was given. I really don't think that is too much to ask of anyone else.

[SenorPatty]

Thing is, I don't wear the mentor icon

Oh and the link a picture thing didn't work that's why i put a link



All that talk about respect is nice and all, but did it ever come to you that it could be a 12 y.o holding that ps4 controller ?

So age now excuses behavior as well? Being a certain age now means people should refrain from giving out advice?

I...I really have no words to express how...detached you sound.


Just...wow.

[KisaiTenshi]

Also, since Moogly loves the "teacher" example, let's use it. You're teaching a class in school. A student is having trouble with an assignment, and it's clear they don't know what they're doing. You, the teacher, go to assist the student. Maybe they just misunderstand something. Maybe they just did the formula wrong here. Who knows? You go up, try to help the student, being polite and patient.

The student in response shouts at you, calling you things, being very verbally aggressive. What do you do? Sit there and take it? Let them do what they want?

No. You either send them to the principals or you call an authority in the building for these situations. Or I guess my high school was different since we did have verbally aggressive students. One kid called me slurs in front of the teacher because I wanted to do my assignment, and I asked him kindly to stop loudly talking next to me.

There is one thing missing from this scenario. If you're the teacher, you have power over the student, and thus the student has the option to ask for help, or tell you they don't want it. If your reaction is to lower yourself to their level, then you're going to be the one who ultimately suffers.

In the Mentor system, everyone is equal. The only power mentors have is to kick other mentors, players, bots, etc from the Mentor chat, and really, if someone is doing that without reason, that's also harassment.

So if someone has the mentor status, they do not get a "get-out-of-harassment-free" card. And neither do the players in the party. Most advice in this game is not given as friendly advice, it's given as orders-or-kick, because a small amount of players in the game haven't figured out they're playing a game, not working a minimum wage job. If you want to bark orders at someone, form a static who is willing to listen. Otherwise consider all unsolicited advise as unwanted, even if they're a sprout.

If someone wants help, they will ask. Or just wait for a failure condition, and then offer "Do you know what to do here?". If you immediately start harassing someone about their dps, tanking, or healing, you will never hear the end of it.

[sakkito]

I am a bit late to the party but hell. I am a mentor who hides their crown (because I don't know EVERYTHING/Self-pressure I feel when I put it on/people perception of it).

I do believe that standards mentors are supposed to adhere to (according to a lot of people that have no crown) are insane, I have never met a person who knows all the instances in the place. That being said, even if I took my crown off, I do behave like a mentor in instances and if someone asks something I answer -if- I can. I see bonus popping up in a place that mechanics are important I do offer to give advice at the beginning of the place. That being said, in 2 years I have been playing, I have never been insulted for giving advice. Most annoying thing that happened to me is well, basically me asking to use 'flash' politely ('Could you please use flash x2 at the start? It will help you with aggro') for the gladiator to do it maybe twice and then revert to single mob aggro stance. It was place I could carry with ease so I didn't really feel the need to ask again and repeat it (if I ask once I feel like repeating myself would annoy the other party so I stop giving advice altogether as I figure for the people like this 1 advice a dunge is enough : ).) Being ignored or semi ignored is annoying but I usually just 'get' the message and adjust.

Ironically most people I have seen being actually verbally offensive/or passive aggressive or just plainly trolling - were non leafs or mentors.

That being said I get that for some runs mentors may want to be quiet (they are people not robots yada yada) but truth is if someone asks a question mentor should answer and do it politely (even if to say that 'he is not sure about this in this instance'). Name 'mentor' suggests that it is someone overseeing someone's learning so comparing it to 'teacher' is right. If teacher can't grow thick skin nor doesn't want to help at all and just do their thing - they can stop being a teacher or like in mentor case- take off the crown and never do mentor roulette. Nobody forced anyone to get that crown. I get that achievements are pretty but at that point this 'function' has been created to 'help' so if you don't want to help you just should revert to the non -function people. /shrug