We Really Need To Talk About The State And Path Of FFXIV

[RiyahArp]

You customized your own stats on the relic weapons, giving you the advantage to fine tune them to be your best possible stats. That's what made the relic BiS before the diadem weapon came out.

Look noone cared about BiS then, because the only place where BiS matters is in Savage. Most people who did the relic grind did it for fun or something to do as a long term progression goal, because BiS in this game is 100% useless; if you can obtain the pieces, you've beaten everything in the game already and don't need it for anything. And it wasn't just weapons, you could get randomized armor pieces with the same stats in the very first iteration of diadem if i remember right. That was the world prog issue.The weapons invalidated the savage gear much more than the relic, because any random 24 man could get one piece that was better than anything someone did savage for; but every new tier of savage invalidated the relic, and no one really assumed the relic took skill.

[Dualgunner]

Look noone cared about BiS then, because the only place where BiS matters is in Savage. Most people who did the relic grind did it for fun or something to do as a long term progression goal, because BiS in this game is 100% useless; if you can obtain the pieces, you've beaten everything in the game already and don't need it for anything. And it wasn't just weapons, you could get randomized armor pieces with the same stats in the very first iteration of diadem if i remember right. That was the world prog issue.The weapons invalidated the savage gear much more than the relic, because any random 24 man could get one piece that was better than anything someone did savage for; but every new tier of savage invalidated the relic, and no one really assumed the relic took skill.

We're going to go in circles all day with your revisionist history.

People who raided savage didn't care about the 280 weapon. Most had already finished and speedran the content to death by then, and didn't need or want a 280 weapon. People who built the relic because they were playing the long game for the best weapon till expac's end were disappointed when their weapon was outdated 9 days after its release (thank you Cass for providing actual day count there).

Creator Savage released on September 27, 2016.

Diadem 2.0 came out in March 8, 2017. That's 5 months, 4 days; a little under the regular life cycle of a raid tier.

[RiyahArp]

People who raided savage didn't care about the 280 weapon. Most had already finished and speedran the content to death by then, and didn't need or want a 280 weapon. People who built the relic because they were playing the long game for the best weapon till expac's end were disappointed when their weapon was outdated 9 days after its release (thank you Cass for providing actual day count there).

The weapon had been outdated multiple times in its lifecycle. Many people don't even bother doing it while its even useful; its filler content designed to give people something to do, which is why people still grind them now, and why people grind more than one HW relic despite the time it took. The customizing stats was a hold over from the previous relic, not so much because people clamored to do so; when SE removed the ability to do so (because anemos relics have stat caps like ornate gear) and made the ilvl worse than tome weapons, there wan't this huge OMG relic is no longer BIS!

If BiS mattered everyone would be raging hard over pagos, since it won't even be usable by the time many people get it done it seems. Relic players really don't care about bis that much, or they'd do savage,

[Dualgunner]

The weapon had been outdated multiple times in its lifecycle.

Yet the precedent at that point was that the relic weapon would be the best weapon of the expansion in the end, beating out the final raid tier weapon. A precedent set by the Zodiac Braves weapon line.

Many people don't even bother doing it while its even useful; its filler content designed to give people something to do, which is why people still grind them now, and why people grind more than one HW relic despite the time it took. The customizing stats was a hold over from the previous relic, not so much because people clamored to do so; when SE removed the ability to do so (because anemos relics have stat caps like ornate gear) and made the ilvl worse than tome weapons, there wan't this huge OMG relic is no longer BIS!

Yes, there was. You can keep acting like there wasn't, but there was definitely more outcry from relic grinders than there was from raiders.

If BiS mattered everyone would be raging hard over pagos, since it won't even be usable by the time many people get it done it seems.

I don't know if you read the FFXIV Official Forums a lot. It's a neat place. There were maybe ten or twenty threads raging about Pagos for various reasons, and among them was this very one.

name one thing you need bis to clear.

Name one thing bis gear with savage pieces lets you do that you can't do in the game already. By the time you get all the pieces, you have cleared everything worth clearing, and nothing is tuned so tightly that you need bis to beat it, not even ultimate or it would be 100% impossible to sell runs.

You don't have to need BiS to want it. Or are you above desire too, oh elite Riyah on high?

And no offense, raiders are just people who bang their heads against single fights for weeks to months, a lot of you are even LESS skilled than casual players because we dont need parsers, zoomhacks or act triggers to play a videogame.

I'm just gonna keep this quote here. The words of the Great Holy Riyah Arpeggio deserve to be enshrined and gilded. I'll just go back to my lolfflogs, that's my content, right?

EDIT: In case you forgot

You have lolfflogs, thats your content. Go focus on padding your runs.

Raiders are the toxic ones.

[RiyahArp]

I'm just gonna keep this quote here. The words of the Great Holy Riyah Arpeggio deserve to be enshrined and gilded. I'll just go back to my lolfflogs, that's my content, right?

I don't like people calling others embarassments because they think they are more skilled. TBH raiding in this game is not done not because its too hard, but because it's not fun. There are a lot of skilled players outside the raid culture that simply don't bother with raiding because of that; people who don't want to commit to a static, people who think leaderboards are stupid, people who dislike the need for third party apps to maintain parity (hint, a lot of games don't use or don't touch them at all).

I kick the casual people that decide they would rather watch Netflix then pay attention to my DF run. Don't multi-task if you can't do it correctly.

I don't think you are much better. If you are on primal, give me a shout and we can run stuff to see. I don't have logs up because i am on ps4, and i am opposed to them in concept so I won't ask people to do it. But anyone who wants to test me can come in and say hi or set up a pf; in game i am less fiery than here, because in game people don't tend to insult me.

[Sigma-Astra]

I don't like people calling others embarassments because they think they are more skilled. TBH raiding in this game is not done not because its too hard, but because it's not fun. There are a lot of skilled players outside the raid culture that simply don't bother with raiding because of that; people who don't want to commit to a static, people who think leaderboards are stupid, people who dislike the need for third party apps to maintain parity (hint, a lot of games don't use or don't touch them at all).

You saying that raiding isn't done because it's not fun is entirely subjective, especially since you even don't raid.

You should really stop projecting your feelings as facts. They're not.

You've lost the argument, you have no points. Stop.

[RiyahArp]

You saying that raiding isn't done because it's not fun is entirely subjective, especially since you even don't raid.

Most people in this game don't raid. You can see this by clear rates, pug advertisements, and by how many members in an FC raid to the total amount.
People who don't raid generally know why they don't raid.
It boils down to fun, since this raid system to its credit, doesn't put a tremendous amount of timesinks before you get to raiding. It doesn't need you to spend 6 hours in sky getting a pop item for a 30 min fight. In FFXI, a lot of people didnt raid due to time burden.
When i was talking, it was in the context of people who don't raid. Not people who do.

I know my job well enough and I'm entitled towards mistakes, as we all are, my numbers reflect. I don't understand why we're trying to turn this into a contest now.

I think if we're playing the "i'm skilled" card to denigrate others, I should offer the chance to prove it. I have to back up my words that I think casuals can be as skilled as raiders, so I need to offer it. So I'm giving the chance to be kicked, in other words. I said something out there, so I need to prove it, and the content isn't fun enough for me to do so on my own initiative. Well, that and someone else refereeing probably would be best, i don't think we have a "link achievements" in this game.

Unfortunately i am not on aether or i would do so with dual, bourne, etc. But anyone on primal. I'm sorry for heated rhetoric, but I don't like people calling others embarassments, and i'm happy to prove that even as a casual, i can understand and do raids just as good as the lot of you. Hmm. The only issue is i don't want to beat it because it makes me look like i want a carry; i had one issue with someone inviting me for the first time on a raid when they all had it on farm and i had never stepped inside of it.

[Dualgunner]

I don't like people calling others embarassments because they think they are more skilled. TBH raiding in this game is not done not because its too hard, but because it's not fun. There are a lot of skilled players outside the raid culture that simply don't bother with raiding because of that; people who don't want to commit to a static, people who think leaderboards are stupid, people who dislike the need for third party apps to maintain parity (hint, a lot of games don't use or don't touch them at all).

Are you your posts now? She said your post was embarrassing, and then pointed out a specific line she thought was especially embarrassing.

Also there you go again, Grand Arbiter of Fun. When will you cease that rhetoric that raiding isn't fun, and accept that maybe people find it fun even when you don't?

[Sigma-Astra]

I don't think you are much better. If you are on primal, give me a shout and we can run stuff to see. I don't have logs up because i am on ps4, and i am opposed to them in concept so I won't ask people to do it. But anyone who wants to test me can come in and say hi or set up a pf; in game i am less fiery than here, because in game people don't tend to insult me.

What's your point with that? I play on PS4 and have logs myself. My logs are there to prove that I am somewhat, not perfect mind you, but somewhat better and more capable than the average casual player. You're welcome to look at my logs for the casual content we both play.

I know my job well enough and I'm entitled towards mistakes, as we all are, my numbers reflect that. I don't understand why we're trying to turn this into a contest now.

Also, I wouldn't have called you spiteful, naive, or immature if you didn't just outright insult the entire raiding community. You threw the first stone inside a glass house. Remember that.

[Legion88]

I don't like people calling others embarassments because they think they are more skilled.

raiders are just people who bang their heads against single fights for weeks to months, a lot of you are even LESS skilled than casual players

It seems you don't like yourself.
It also seems that here are people talking about things they don't know, didn't experience or didn't try and are full of bias.


If you like it or not, i did raiding myself and i wasn't very good, but i beat 80% of players i met in content outside of Ex or Savage with my performance. The others were all raiders, marked by their equipment.